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Post by Mr. Thomas on Sept 10, 2013 7:01:15 GMT -5
Post your responses to the reading on this thread. Discuss the Odyssey, summary of books 1-4 too if you'd like.
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Post by wagnerj16 on Sept 10, 2013 18:04:44 GMT -5
C. What caused a little confusion with me was the begining of the story. “ had taken spoil a female captive, by name Chryseis, daughter of Chryses, preist of Apollo, had fallen to the share of Agamemnon.” This really confuses me because it doesn’t explain why Agamemnon took the mans daughter in the first place. Why wwould he take the daughter of a priest who will get the God on his side? And why did Amamemnon get angry with Achillies for freeing her, when he is not only his best soldier but also invincible (besides his heel.)
E. Achillies seems like a fairly weird character. “ He withdrew his forces from the general camp and openly avowed his intention of returning home to Greece.” Now why would he let his country down by leaving? He is the best soldier in the world, and the trojans even know what his armor looks like and even though he wasn’t in it they feared him. Why would he return home over one argeument. And then after he sends his best friend to go fight in his place, and then once he dies, he then decides to fight?! Why not just fight in the first place?
F. I cant tell where the relationships lie between the Gods and the humans. It seems that they do wanna help them out but because of Jupiter they cant. And why does Jupiter get to help out the trojans but then when neptune tries to help the Greeks he is instantly told to stop when Hector had fallen. Also where does Junos alliance lay? She helped out the Greeks by distracting Jupiter “Jupiter saw nothing of what was going on, for his attention had been drawn from the field by the wiles of Juno”.
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Post by hessd16 on Sept 10, 2013 18:37:39 GMT -5
(Dakota Hess)
B. Even though this reading was a bit confusing I can see how this will lead up to the Odyssey by Homer. This war is waged in anger of a king’s wife being stolen. It also happens that characters involved in this are also involved with people who have been touched by the Pelop family curse. If not for the curse and if not for this war the epic of ‘The Odyssey’ would not be able to occur.
C. There was a lot of confusion for me without the whole story especially the beginning. The part about Chryseis and Chryses really confused me. Why had they had a priest? Was it normal in that time for mortals to wage wars and try to avoid the wraths of the gods? Why had Achilles been so afflicted that he withdrew his troops?
D. My reaction to the actions of the gods was surprising. I was shocked to see how immature the gods acted. Especially the line of “The gods and goddesses interested themselves as much in this famous war as the parties themselves.” This shocked me to see as how the gods entertain themselves with mortal trifles. They also take sides! The second paragraph on the first page explains which sides the gods take. This also surprises me to see that gods would be taking sides in a war having to do with mortals. I also observed that if the gods had not interfered things may have not gotten so bad. “Then a council was called to deliberate how to allay the wrath of the gods and avert the plague” if the gods had not interfered the meeting would not have to have been called and the war may not have been so brutal.
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Post by hankmichels on Sept 10, 2013 18:58:50 GMT -5
E. To me Achilles feels like a very interesting character. Although not to complex, he proves to be one of the stronger characters in the Iliad (which is probably why he comes across as the main character). Achilles appears to be a very self centered guy; only fighting for gold, glory and women. That is practically the only reason he went to troy; he had no “Oath of Helen”. But then when his friend dies, he becomes angry and that encourages him to fight hard and kill hector. So that incident proves that he has heart, and that there is more to him.
F. I feel like there was a very strong relationship between Achilles and Patroclus. In a way, it reminds me of the relationship between Siddartha and Govinda, how Patroclus is Achilles follower and always asks for permission. And Achilles loves him back, because when Patroclus dies, Achilles freaks out and returns to troy to fight, and eventually kill Hector.
D. “ Then Achilles went forth to battle inspired with a rage and thirst for vengeance that made him irresistible. The bravest warriors fled before him or fell on his lance. Hector, cautioned by Apollo, kept aloof; but the god, assuming the form of one of priams sons, Lyacon, urged aneaes to encounter the terrible warrior.” That line does such a great job of summing up how violent Achilles was. it shows perfectly how how he went on a bloodshed and every one was so scared of him. It further proves to show how much Achilles loved his friend
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Post by idelfonsoe16 on Sept 10, 2013 19:28:09 GMT -5
H. Achilles, standing tall and weary on the earth’s surface, shrieks at the sound of Patroclus’ death. His confidence shattered, his heart filled with nothing but turmoil and hatred. Antilochus was devastated at the prediction that Achilles might kill himself, and stayed about in the thick air. There was nothing in Achilles mind but hatred, regret, and sorrow. He screeched across the ocean so deep that his own mother, Thetis, heard upon his cry. She replied back to those cries of distress, bringing about the promise of a new armor capable of making Achilles invincible, but it needs to be delivered by morning. Achilles waited until sunrise, gazing upon the rising sun above the desolate world around him. Then in some sort of miraculous effort, his armor appeared to him. He grinned with the taste of revenge in his lips, and put his armor on. “I will avenge you, Patroclus” Achilles said while marching off to the camp for the immediate departure for Troy.
F. Patroclus is really fond of Achilles. He is happy to be the person that will clothe Achilles with the “invincible armor”. Although they seem like close friends, the Trojans pull them away from each other, but to Achilles’ misfortune, that would be the last time he would see Patroclus alive. I believe that Patroclus was willing to give his life to protect Achilles, and also the army of Greece against the battle hardened Trojans.
G. If I were Patroclus, I would’ve stayed by Achilles’ side throughout the entire war. If I were to be sent into battle, I would have a low chance of survival, and dying without seeing my closest friend one more time would be a loss on my part. The only reason I would’ve separated from Achilles would’ve been if Achilles was basically killed by Hector.
(Eric Idelfonso)
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Post by LebronJamesKingJamesIlluminati on Sept 10, 2013 20:03:18 GMT -5
A. " The war continued without decisive results for nine years"
One aspect of the reading that relates to current events and is very obvious would have to be the idea of War itself. The wars that we have witnessed since we have been alive have pretty
much lasted since about a few years after we were born. I believe there is no way to solve this issue because there will always be war whether we like it or not. People are always going to be hostile towards each other and there is no way to fix that. So in my eyes we will always be living with a war being fought just because of the fact that people cannot discuss their
differences and go their separate ways. Why do wars last so long? If there was conflict in the past I believe that it was the rulers' intent to fight instead of trying to sit down
and talk about it. The world could've been in a much better place, or worse if wars were instead debated and not fought.
C. Does anyone else wonder why the stories back then were so long? These stories are extremely long and contain a lot of information in just a small space.It is very confusing for me to understand. This often makes it harder for me to read and take notes because I keep finding myself going back and rechecking my steps. Was it better back then to have very long stories? is that why some of the creators of these books are famous today? to be honest I am not very sure and if anyone else wonders the same thing that I do then could you please reply to this post or if you have an answer. thanks.
D. "The gods and goddesses interested themselves as much in this famous war as the parties themselves"
This quote is my favorite, because it speaks for itself. When gods and goddesses are spoken about today, they are made to sound as if they were very conceited and only thought about themselves and I think that were. They always thought that they were the best at everything and often boasted about their skills. To me gods would not be very smart leaders because they only care about themselves. The things we have read about these gods and goddesses in the odyssey and illiad makes these gods sound like they would have been very foolish leaders. They don't care for others and as a leader it's a known fact that you MUST care about your people first because you need them to be there to have faith and believe in you. If you break the trust that they have for you,you just won't be the leader any more because the people are greater than just one man.
-Joe Martin
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Isaiah "ZaySoFly" Colon
Guest
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Post by Isaiah "ZaySoFly" Colon on Sept 10, 2013 20:04:01 GMT -5
Isaiah Colon
C. I was quite confused with this story today. In Book one, one of my main questions starts with the fact that why Athena is calling all the shots at the meeting with all the other Gods. I feel like no one else got to say anything or input anything at this meeting. Also Athena sticks with one main Topic trying to get Odysseus. I also don’t know why Athena had to go so far as to disguise herself as a friend of Odysseus, Mentus, to try and pry him from his homeland. I also am astonished at Athena’s persistence even telling Odysseus’s wife that he will be safe in a dream. She is really persistent
D. I thought it was pretty funny when in book one it says: “The Gods are meeting (without Poseidon because he is out harassing Odysseus)” I thought this was funny because it reminded me of my dad and my brother, or any dad and son for that matter. It was like he was late for work due to some shenanigan his son was involved in. In this case it’s Odysseus being held captive.
E. I wanted to expand just a little bit more on the character Athena in this story. I know I have said it before, but if you look at the effort that Athena puts in to try and get to Odysseus is pretty persistent. For Example, in book one she send people to Odysseus and even goes to his land herself, disguised as one of his friends. She also keeps Odysseus’s wife sane by telling her that he will be safe in her dreams.
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Post by LebronJamesKingJamesIlluminati on Sept 10, 2013 20:09:03 GMT -5
@ ZaySoFly
I really understand where you are coming from. I also had a ton of trouble understanding this story.
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Post by rozzayhill007 on Sept 10, 2013 20:19:36 GMT -5
Jackson Hill
C. The first thing that confused me was when there was a quarrel between Achilles and Agamemnon, “ Then an event occurred which seemed likely to be fatal to the casue of the Greeks, and that was a quarrel between Achilles and Agamemnon.” Why would one quarrel be fatal to a certain group? Something that confused me was in the second paragraph where it talks about the war, “Venus enlisted her admirer Mars on the same side, but Neptune favored the Greeks.” Why would Neptune favor one particular side, that being the Greeks? Did something happen which made him apposed to one side than the other? When Achilles is hurt and his mother was furious about this, “She repaired immediately to Jove’s palace and besought him to make the Greeks repent of their injustice to Achilles by granting success to the Trojan arms.” Was it because of this that they won or was it jus pure luck. Was Achilles mother able to put on some kind of spell to ensure that the Trojan army would win?
E. An interesting character to me is Achilles. He seems to be a weak person but through out the Iliad he proves himself to be quite strong and durable. I think that he is most likely the strongest character in the Iliad.
F. I think that a interesting relationship is between Achilles and his mother. I think this because most mothers and sons don’t really get along well, or do but do not talk, however in this relationship they both care and love each so much that Achilles mother promises that the Greeks will pay for what they did to Achilles and it just so happens that they do pay for their injustice towards Achilles.
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Post by kkhurana70 on Sept 10, 2013 20:57:57 GMT -5
C- After reading The Iliad I was slightly confused with the quote in the beginning saying “had taken spoil a female captive by the name of Chryseis, daughter of Chryses, priest of Apollo, had fallen to the share of Agamemnon” (6-7) for multiple reasons, one being that they do not explain why Agamemnon chooses her and what he does with her. I also got confused from this because what leader would decide to pick on someone who has a direct connection to the God of Sun or any god.
E-Agamemnon seems to be a weird character to me because of his choices in the passage. The thing I find weirdest is that he randomly selected the daughter of a priest that had a close relationship to a god, and then took her from her family. I also find him weird because he without any agreement lets his best soldier Achilles walk out on the army, to me in that situation I would have reasoned with him immediately not just let him leave.
F-Throughout the passage there are numerous names and sides taken, however the only relationship that I find hard to understand is the one between the Gods and humans. I have trouble fully understanding them because at moments the Gods support the Trojans however only a few gods do this. I don’t understand why some gods pick the Trojans or the Greeks. But when one god picks the Greeks like Neptune he is rejected, but when Jupiter chose the Trojans there was no problem. I feel like the gods are at moments fearful of crossing each other too much.
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Post by richteri16 on Sept 10, 2013 21:03:40 GMT -5
B. The death of Patroclus is a point in the story that alters it greatly. “At the same moment an obscure Trojan wounded him in the back, and Hector, pressing forward, pierced him with his spear. He fell mortally wounded.” Patroclus was Achilles good friend so when he heard the news he was deeply depressed and enraged. He decided the only way to get better would be to go to the battlefield and seek revenge. When Achilles arrived the whole remaining Trojan army was terrified and most warriors would not even attack him. When he found Hector he chased him down and killed him. After he took his armor and dragged him in front of Troy for all inside to see. Thanks to the killing of Patroclus we see that Achilles is a very emotional character. Also Achilles presence on the battlefield probably swayed the battle in the favor of the Greeks.
E. The character Achilles really surprised me as I kept reading. At first I thought that he was a bloodthirsty killer that killed everyone in his path. “Then Achilles went forth to battle inspired with a rage and thirst for vengeance that made him irresistible.” Here I saw that Achilles was crazy for vengeance and full of rage because of the death of his friend Patroclus. However as I kept reading I saw another side of Achilles. When Hector’s father entered Achilles tent to beg for his son’s body I saw that Achilles was also a soft kind of person as well. “These words moved Achilles, and he wept; remembering by turns his absent father and his lost friend.” Just after that Achilles even feels bad for Hector’s father. I was really surprised that Achilles was not just a rage filled killer but also a soft and merciful person.
F. There is a really strong relation ship between Hector and his family. When Hector was killed and being dragged in front of the walls of Troy I saw a very strong display of emotions for him. “When she saw the sight there presented, she would have thrown herself headlong from the wall, but fainted and fell into the arms of her maidens.” This quote is about Hector’s wife Andromache seeing Hector’s corpse from the walls of Troy. She is so overcome with grief that she would have jumped over the walls, probably killing herself. Also, by the end of the story you can find that the WHOLE population of Troy attended his funeral/memorial service. These are some really good examples of Hector’s connection with his people.
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Post by johnaviles on Sept 10, 2013 21:18:16 GMT -5
C. What first confused me was how the war could be going on for 9 years over something so small and make no progress “ The war continued without decisive results for nine years.” I also don’t completely understand why Agamemnon refuses to release Chryses’ daughter Chryseis even when Chryses begs to Agamemnon in his office to release her, “Chryses came bearing the sacred emblems of his office, and begged the release of his daughter, Agamemnon refused.” I am also not sure as to why she was even taken to begin with.
D. “Then Achilles went forth in battle inspired with a rage and thirst for vengeance that made him irresistible.” I enjoyed this line because it got me excited as for what was to happen next and it made me happy to see Achilles being the leader and role model in this situation and having the most brave warriors look up to him because he showed how passionate he could be.
F. I feel like Agamemnon always has to have his way and gets what he feel he deserves. The relationship Agamemnon has with Achilles doesn’t seem like it could be described with the word loyalty. Agamemnon asks of stuff from Achilles but Achilles wants to do what he feels is best even if he doesn’t please Agamemnon, “Then Agamemnon called a council of his wisest and bravest chiefs. Ulysses, Ajax, and Phoenix were sent to carry to Achilles the penitent message. They performed that duty, but Achilles was deaf to hear their entreaties. He positively refused to return to the field.”
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Post by petergiglio on Sept 10, 2013 21:40:53 GMT -5
E. My reactions to Achilles were that he was a good man at heart, cared greatly about his friends and family and wasn't ruthless unless you got him upset or did something to harm somebody he cared about. For example, when people had come to him to renter the war and fight he refused instantaneously. Although, after he had heard the news that his good friend Patroclus had been killed by Hector, he went out in search of him to get revenge for himself and his friend. Achilles is the type of person that you would want in your army without a doubt.
D. " Dog, name not ransom or pity to me, on whom you have brought such dire distress. No! trust me, naught shall save thy carcass from dogs. Though twenty ransoms and thy weight in god were offered, I would refuse it all" I really enjoyed this quote because we don't really get to read Achilles speak very often or at all besides this and it shows the anger and hurt he has been feeling and that Hector has caused on him which really displays his character. Also, its not true because he later gives up the body.
C. What confused me about this story was that i really didn't understand what the gods and goddesses role were in the whole point of the story besides Thetis. They were just kind of sub- topics that were irrelevant to the story which i read over many times and god nowhere. They all seem to just be watching over everything on Olympus likes its one big movie
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Post by #@%@# on Sept 10, 2013 21:49:07 GMT -5
C: The Iliad was very long. But it was a good story in total. But there were some confusing parts. I agree with John Aviles on why this war was going on for 9 years over such a small matter. It doesnt make sense on how and why the war lasted that long. Another confusing part was how mortals could wage wars against gods. Weren't Gods the almighty and powerful beings back then and always respected? So why are people able to revolt against such strong power without being instantly punished?
H: The character achilles is a mighty one. He has almost no armor on himself. He has a golden helmet with small streaks of dirt on it. The helmet only showed parts of his face like his eyes and nose and mouth, making him look more ferocious and demonic. He is wearing a golden breastplate that is a little tarnished because of bad keeping. Straps from his back to the breastplate is what is keeping it on. His arms are at least 5 inches thick, full of muscle. He is wearing a forearm guard. Probably to show the audience that he can throw spears and handle large weapons. I am arguing if he needs a shield or not. Because he is inpenetrable from everywhere except his heel, he does not require a shield. But having it makes his appearance look more brawlic.
I:I agree with most people on how they were confused with the beginning part of the story, with Agememnon and Achilles. It was all a hot mess on what they did to each other and how Apollo fits into this fight.
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Post by Ray Park on Sept 10, 2013 21:49:33 GMT -5
Above this one is me btw
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