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Post by Mr. Thomas on Mar 26, 2014 12:23:22 GMT -5
"If a body catch a body..."
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Post by Mr. Thomas on Mar 29, 2014 13:06:49 GMT -5
Bump
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Post by richteri16 on Mar 30, 2014 10:28:23 GMT -5
C. What the hell was going on with Holden and Mr. Antolini? He is just sleeping there and he starts petting Holden’s head. What was he trying to do? Holden apparently thought that there was some sort of molestation action going on here. What I think is that he was just drunk. Holden said that he saw how Mr. Antolini was really boozing it up. I would not be surprised if he was just drunk and all.
E. It seems that Holden is now trying to surround himself with people who have more of reasoning minds. His sister clearly is a support line for Holden. She may be young but she is a help for him. She seems to just be someone who he can talk to. Then there is Mr. Antolini. Besides for the whole event at the end of the reading he seems like a typical educated man. He also has good advice for Holden. he warns of how he is going off the cliff soon. He is in for a big fall. I thin k he has a point there. Sooner or later it will all hit the fan.
H. I found the whole part with Holden and Mr. Antolini talking about the speech class ironic. This is because the class specifically made sure to keep people from trailing off. This whole book is Holden trailing off in his thoughts! I think that this was just a little nod by the author at his own writing style.
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Post by rozzayhill007 on Mar 30, 2014 11:11:29 GMT -5
C. I do not really understand the importance of the beginning of chapter 22. Like that whole beginning part just confuses me so much. He is talking about Pency and I know that he hates it and all but like the rest of it, like telling us about how Phoebe is a good listener, do I really care about that. The first two pages of this chapter were not really interesting to me at all.
D. A line that I like is when Holden's parents come home, " I quick jumped up and ran over and turned off the light over the desk. Then I jammed out my cigarette on my shoe and put it in my pocket. Then I fanned the hell out of the air, to get the smoke out- I shouldn't even have been smoking, for God's sake. Then I grabbed my shoes and got in the closet and shut the door. Boy, my heart was beating like a bastard." I laughed a little reading this part, because he's like one of those typical teenagers who is always hiding from his parents, and I can vividly picture him jumping over stuff and turning off the lights and hiding in a closet
I. I agree with what Ian said in his H response. I found this part a little fun because the class is not suppose to trail off topic but yet Mr. Antolini and Holden start talking about something that is not related to the class at all
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Post by hessd16 on Mar 30, 2014 17:25:24 GMT -5
e. . i believe an important part of this book comes when Holden tells Phoebe he would like to be the catcher in the rye, saving little children from falling off the cliff. This passage explains the title of the book. The rye field would be a symbol of childhood. Standing on the precipice that separates the rye field of childhood from the cliff of adulthood, Holden wants to protect his innocence from the sins of adulthood. Trapped between these two things with his innocence in jeopardy, Holden wants to be a “catcher in the rye,” a savior of innocence.
c. i really liked the part where Phoebe stood up for herself when Holden was trying to reject the fact that he pretty much hated everything. This can be another example of Holden's break from his own little world into reality. This part of the book also shows Holden's sad and lonely side again. When he says that he likes Allie, Phoebe has to remind him that he is dead, she does this in a rude manner.
i. i agree with rozzayhill007 : C. I do not really understand the importance of the beginning of chapter 22. Like that whole beginning part just confuses me so much. He is talking about Pency and I know that he hates it and all but like the rest of it, like telling us about how Phoebe is a good listener, do I really care about that. The first two pages of this chapter were not really interesting to me at all.
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Post by michaelgenco on Mar 30, 2014 20:48:55 GMT -5
C. Why wouldn’t Holden just stay home with Phoebe? He knows that he is going to get into trouble why doesn’t he just accept reality? Holden even says that he wishes his parents would catch him before he left so he wouldn’t have to leave. One again to what we were talking about in class, Holden is afraid of the real world. Another thing that I found weird was when Holden decides to call Mr. Antolini. He calls Mr. Antolini extremely late, which is not very considerate, and basically invites himself over. I have to say, either Holden has a lot of nerve to call him, or Mr Antolini actually likes and looks out for him.
D. A quote that I thought was very sad and made holden snap out of the world he has been living was the conversation he had with Phoebe. The conversation is, “‘You don’t like anything that’s happening.’ It made me even more depressed when she said it. ‘Yes I do. Yes I do. Sure I do. Don’t say that. Why the hell do you say that?’ ‘Because you don’t. You don’t life any schools. You don’t like a million of things. You don’t.’” This conversation made me upset for Holden because its true. He doesn’t like anything and that’s why he is so miserable.
E. A scene that I found extremely interesting was when Holden says what he wants to be. Holden describes it as being the catcher in the rye. I think Holden is trying to say that he wants to help any kid that is going on the wrong direction like himself.
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Post by raypark on Mar 30, 2014 21:08:51 GMT -5
E. In these chapters we see Holden as his real self. In front of Pheobe he has no choice but to be honest with himself and he can't run away from it. This is where we see the real Holden and what his true feelings are. Many times, Holden says to himself that he feels even more and more depressed as Pheobe tells him the reality of things that other role models were trying to tell him all along. He finally listens to what he needs to hear from these upper adults and he is recieving it from the best person for him, Pheobe. Holden really shows a lot of patience for his little sister. If I were him I would have gone crazy because of her continuously saying that Holden's dad was going to die.
A. My favorite part of the story is when Holden's mother comes in and Pheobe completely covered up for Holden. Holden's mother comes in slightly suspicious of what Phoebe was doing. But whatever Holden's mother was saying, Phoebe continuously covered for Holden. Then when Holden's mother left the two of them alone, Holden was getting ready to leave. Then Holden asked Phoebe for some money. Phoebe gives Holden everything she has and owns. Then Holden starts Bawling because of the kindness he is recieving from her. This was such a beautiful moment. I read this and felt so touched seeing how much emotion and feelings Holden has. I felt so moved.
I. I agree with Jackson Hill about the beginning of the chapters about when Holden was talking about the times at Pencey he was at. He was talking about the poor boy that committed suicide because of all the bullying that happend to him. Then Mr. Antolini was the only one that picked the boy up and tested his pulse. I didnt understand where that fit into the whole story of the book and the flow of the story.
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Post by idelfonsoe16 on Mar 30, 2014 21:14:38 GMT -5
C. I felt touched when it was mentioned that Mr. Antolini went and respected the child who jumped out the window. I just want to know, why would he go out of his way to do it? What courage drove him to do such a task? I felt bad for the little boy. I’m no fan of suicide, but getting at the bullying, the child thought what he was doing was the only way to escape. Other than the scandal with the petting of Holden’s hair, I think Mr. Antolini is a good person, and he could potentially help Holden with his problems.
I. I like Ian’s E response. I do believe that Holden needs a “support beam” in his life, because he really needs some mental help. Phoebe and Mr. Antolini both can be the “beams” to Holden, and could probably whip him back into shape! I’m not too sure if Mr. Antolini would stick around so long after the incident, but I know Phoebe could get to Holden somehow. It’s weird, though, how Phoebe, who is younger than Holden, has a better outlook at life than he does.
D. I was confused at this quote from Mr. Antolini: “I expected to see a day-old infant in your arms, nowhere to turn, and snowflakes in your eyes.” Did he think that Holden would be stuck with a baby?! He can barely have sex with a prostitute what makes you think he could have a baby?! This was really freaky to me.
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Post by stephanoscocoves on Mar 30, 2014 21:58:01 GMT -5
E. I liked that part where Holden tell Phoebe that when he grows up he wants to catch the little kids from falling of the field. It shows in some way that Holden wants to be a hero or a role model. He doesnt want people looking at him like he's some kid who keeps failing out of school. C. I was confused by why Mr. Atonlini would try and start an argument with Holden. I think he knows that people like him that are always disagreeing with him are the people he hates so why would he try to starts something with him. And then later in the night he starts touching his head. I. I agree with richteri16 I do think HOlden wants to surround himself with more intelligent people. Like his sister who I think is acutally smarter than he is |
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Post by zaysofly on Mar 31, 2014 16:54:56 GMT -5
D: I thought it was really funny how Holden came to Phoebe expecting to get some sympathy from her about him getting kicked out of school and his crazy life at the moment, and Phoebe is just telling him off and she is only 11. its kind of embarrassing that he is getting told off by this little girl, and it takes a little girl yelling t her to get him to realize how he hates everything. Also, Holden can only seem to come up with liking two things, the nuns from the breakfast and that kid who killed himself by jumping out the window. It really demeaning towards Holden. it seems like phoebe has gone over the fact that allie is dead while holden has not. phoebe seems to be pretty ornate and negative just like holden. also, i think that maybe something emotionally wrong happened to Holden, like maybe he was sexually molested.
F: If i were Holden i would feel pretty bad about myself. My little sister just violated my life and said that i dont like anything. I like somethings. I just dont like everything. Maybe Phoebe is just angry at me because she hasn't seen me in a while i wish she would just feel bad for me instead of making fun of me.
E: i agree with richteri16 when he said that mr A. was way out of bounds when he woke up in t he middle of the night and was awkwardly touching him
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Post by jotirmoykundu on Mar 31, 2014 17:01:35 GMT -5
I. I agree with response raypark wrote, “E. In these chapters we see Holden as his real self. In front of Pheobe he has no choice but to be honest with himself and he can't run away from it. This is where we see the real Holden and what his true feelings are. Many times, Holden says to himself that he feels even more and more depressed as Pheobe tells him the reality of things that other role models were trying to tell him all along. He finally listens to what he needs to hear from these upper adults and he is recieving it from the best person for him, Pheobe. Holden really shows a lot of patience for his little sister. If I were him I would have gone crazy because of her continuously saying that Holden's dad was going to die.”
C. Holden is about to get caught and into a world of trouble staying home with Phoebe so why is she staying? I found it funny that Holden said that he hopes his parents catch him so he doesn’t have to leave. Holden is not at all ready for the real world. Why does Holden Mr. Antolini? He calls Mr. Antolini at an extraneously weird time and basically invites himself over. I have to say, either Holden has a lot of nerve to call him, or Mr Antolini actually likes and looks out for him.
E. I liked that part where Holden wanting to catch the little kids from falling off the field when he grows old. It shows in some way that Holden is taking initiative in to becoming a hero or a role model. He doesnt want people looking at him like he's some kid who keeps failing out of school.
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Post by hankmichels on Mar 31, 2014 18:20:43 GMT -5
E. I feel like there is something really disturbing the whole time Holden is in the Anatolis apartment. Holden talks about this teacher with high remarks and it sort of seems that he is the only one holden respects.b This guy seems nice enough, but he is said to be a drinker, his wife is way to old for him and unattractive (without makeup). Also they have dirty dishes lying around. And for once this doesn’t bother Holden. If this was anyone else he would be tearing them apart, but holden seems to refuse to acknowledge that everything is not pleasant. Maybe he is just releaved to be with this guy that he doesn’t care. Its interesting
C. Is Mr. Anatoli making a homosexual move on Holden? Maybe its just holden being insecure and not used to affection. Or maybe hes just exaggerating. But, given the clues from before, this couple is as normal as holden would have liked to believe. Maybe mr. anatolis is really strange which is kind of sad. Holden says that It was mr anatoli who picked up that Castle kid’s body and holden holds him in high regards (he is the only person he refers to as ‘Mr’.) so after this, holden cant believe or trust anyone.
F. I found it interesting of what holden thought of Castle, the kid who killed himself. Holden said he never knew him really, and the only time they spoke was when he wanted a sweater. Maybe it was because holden seems to love innocence, which Castle was.
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Post by bakerm16 on Mar 31, 2014 19:51:37 GMT -5
E. I thought that Holden blew the situation with Mr.Anatoli way out of proportion. The man did not rape him. He was drunk. If anything I think Holden should be understanding of the actions of Mr.Anatoli because he is always drinking and knows that it affects people in different ways. This is a major moment for me because it shows how much of a hypocrite Holden is.
I feel like if Holden ever met a person that was exactly like him he would hate him. IF you thick about it all the traits that Holden mentions he hates Holden has. The biggest one is being phony. Holden is in fact the biggest phony in the entire book. One of my favorite parts of the book is when Phoebe tells Holden that he doesn't like anything. If you think about it there are two people he likes. Thats not good.
C. Why is Holden such a hypocrite? I think that he has gone against almost all the things he has said. To be honest I hate Holden. He's so annoying. He hates everything and only talks about what he hates and how there is everything wrong with everyone but him.
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Post by youssefj16 on Apr 1, 2014 14:28:13 GMT -5
C. I was really weirded out by the scene with Holden and Mr. Antolini. Holden was just sleeping and Mr. Antolini starts touching his head....He must have been really drunk. Holden also took it like he was molesting him, which is probably not true.. he was just really drunk. I kinda find Holden a hypocrite hear because its like he's getting mad at Mr. Antolini for getting drunk but he always got drunk himself.
I. I agree with ray's E response- throughout the whole book, Holden has never been expressing his true self and was acting like somebody he wasn't. I found it very emotional and touching when Holden was talking to Phoebe and was being honest. If only he was this way all the time.
E. I thought that Holden was being really hypocritical when he said he wants to save kids from growing up. He's basically saying that kids shouldn't have freedom even thought throughout the entire book, he has been very lonely and we haven't seen much of his family get involved at all in this book.
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