|
|
Post by Mr. Thomas on Mar 14, 2014 10:21:56 GMT -5
---
|
|
|
|
Post by hessd16 on Mar 15, 2014 18:41:52 GMT -5
c. i really like and found the description of how tough Holden thought he was. Also i found the part baout the prostitue funny as well. A bit disturbing but also funny. The part about him getting beat up was pretty sad, also this shows his stubbornness, he should've just given the extra $5 when he realized that he was in trouble.
e. these chapters show the clash between Holden's ideal world and the real world. Sunny kind of confronts his conflict with female interaction. His ideal thoughts of Jane are what he thinks of female interaction but Sunny completely bulldozes this idea. Also i believe his want for sexual interaction clashes with his innocence that we have been talking about.
i really liked this quote, it shows Holden's nervousness and attempt at suave and Sunny's disinterest:
"She came in and took her coat off right away and sort of chucked it on the bed. She had on a green dress underneath. Then she sort of sat down sideways on the chair that went with the desk in the room and started jiggling her foot up and down. She crossed her legs and started jiggling this one foot up and down. She was very nervous, for a prostitute. She really was. I think it was because she was young as hell. She was around my age. I sat down in the big chair, next to her, and offered her a cigarette.
"I don't smoke," she said.
She had a tiny little wheeny-whiny voice. You could hardly hear her. She never said thank you, either, when you offered her something. She just didn't know any better.
"Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Jim Steele," I said.
"Ya got a watch on ya?" she said. She didn't care what the hell my name was, naturally.
"Hey, how old are you, anyways?"
"Me? Twenty-two."
"Like fun you are."
It was a funny thing to say. It sounded like a real kid. You'd think a prostitute and all would say "Like hell you are" or "Cut the crap" instead of "Like fun you are." (13.30-35)
|
|
|
|
Post by rozzayhill007 on Mar 16, 2014 11:07:12 GMT -5
Jackson Hill
C. One thing I am confused about is on page 104 in the last paragraph, where he says that he wants to commit suicide. I am confused on this whole situation like is he saying this sarcastically or is he being real. And if this is real what is the context surrounding this event.
D. A quote that I like is, “ If you want to know the truth, I’m a virgin. I really am. I’ve had quite a few opportunities to lose my virginity and all, but I’ve never got around to it yet. Something always happens. For instance, if you’re at a girls house, her parents always come home at the wrong time—or you’re afraid they will. Or if you’re in the back seat of somebody’s car, there’s always somebody’s date in the front seat—some girl, I mean—that always wants to know what’s going on all over the whole goddamn car.” The reason why I like this quote is because it lets us see another side of Holden. We get to see the “cooler” side of him. We kind of get to see the degenerate side of Holden. We get a new perspective of him.
I. I agree with what Dakota said in his letter E response about Holden’s “clash” with the real world. It’s like Holden is finally coming to his senses and witnessing the real world. I also agree with what Dakota said when he said that his wants for sexual interaction interferes with his innocence.
|
|
|
|
Post by raypark on Mar 16, 2014 21:46:51 GMT -5
A. These chapters were very amusing to read. So much has happend to poor Holden that makes the reader sympathize with him. We see in these chapters how much Holden is suffering. Although he is trying to run away from reality, he just becomes closer and closer to the true reality of the world. He meets people and happens to deal with things that he did not want to or get himself into. I sympathize with Holden very much because of all this suffering he has to go through. Although I don't go through nearly half as much suffering as he does, I feel terribly bad for him and almost want to go into the world of the book and help him out in the situations where he needs a friend.
C. Some parts of these chapters were very confusing. One part is when he decides to meet with the prostitute Sunny. If Holden was extremely depressed from the beginning, why even go along with going for a throw? Secondly why did he even have to pay Sunny any money? Holden literally had a 2 minute conversation with her and even was kind enough to give her the informed amount of money that he was told to give. Another thing that kinda confused me was the actions that he committed to when Old Maurice and Old Sunny were in his hotel room. Why didn't he just give them the five dollars that they wanted? If he just gave them the five dollars then nothing back would have happend to him and he wouldnt have to go through the punch in the stomach that Old Maurice gave him.
I. I agree with Jackson Hill about the part when Holden wants to committ suicide. I was pretty confused for what he was exactly thinking there. Although he was in a rough spot and in pain, because of Old Maurice, I wanted to kind of see some build up before he jumped to the conclusive idea of wanting to committ suicide.
|
|
|
|
Post by stephanoscocoves on Mar 16, 2014 23:35:08 GMT -5
C. I am confused why Holden asks for the prostitute to come to his room and then is to afraid. I understand that, that situation could be a very awkward moment. But he is obvioulsy lonely so I dont understand why he is just settling for some thotties instead of asking Jane. D. I quote I liked was the same as rozzayhill007 "If you want to know the truth, I’m a virgin. I really am. I’ve had quite a few opportunities to lose my virginity and all, but I’ve never got around to it yet. Something always happens. For instance, if you’re at a girls house, her parents always come home at the wrong time—or you’re afraid they will. Or if you’re in the back seat of somebody’s car, there’s always somebody’s date in the front seat—some girl, I mean—that always wants to know what’s going on all over the whole goddamn car." I. I agree with raypark they were very amusing. I'm really liking this book so far it is very easy to get in to. |
|
|
|
Post by hankmichels on Mar 17, 2014 13:55:28 GMT -5
E. I find it really interesting how holden wont admit to a lot of stuff, but he will admit to being a coward and (earlier on in the story) a pacifist. For one he wont admit to being really negative about every thing. He goes about describing things as if they were trash, but acts as if it is completely normal. Now I said he admits to being a coward, but then was when he was fantasizing beating up a thief. He did not say that he wont call jane because he is a coward or that he wont call his sister because he is a coward. Another thing he wont admit to is being emotionally unstable. I think the reason that he does admit to being a pacifist and coward is because he is either lying or trying to hide something that he did. For instance, he could have killed someone, and right now, where he is narrating from in LA, he is in jail and is being questioned for a murder. He is saying that he is a coward and a pacifist to try and prove that he would never do that.
I swear, if anyone steals this idea...
G. This is sort of a side not note, but I think that sunny the prostitute and Maurice the elevator dude are pert of a team. I think that Maurice strikes up a conversation with a weary hotel guest and then says he can get him a prostitute for only five bucks. The customer is tired and realizes that the price is low so he says yes. Then later, they try and scam more money out of the guy.
C. I wonder why holden talks to the nuns? Maybe for repentance from the night before.
|
|
|
|
Post by jotirmoykundu on Mar 17, 2014 15:32:26 GMT -5
C. I wonder why Holden was talking to the nuns? Could it be to seek forgiveness from the night before.
D. In this section of the reading was “If you want to know the truth, I’m a virgin. I really am. I’ve had quite a few opportunities to lose my virginity and all, but I’ve never got around to it yet. Something always happens. For instance, if you’re at a girl’s house, her parents always come home at the wrong time—or you’re afraid they will. Or if you’re in the back seat of somebody’s car, there’s always somebody’s date in the front seat—some girl, I mean—that always wants to know what’s going on all over the whole goddamn car.” I like this quote because it lets us see Holden in another perspective. We get to see a more relatable cooler side of him. I like the degenerate side of him more.
I. I agree with Ray Parks A: “These chapters were very amusing to read. So much has happend to poor Holden that makes the reader sympathize with him. We see in these chapters how much Holden is suffering. Although he is trying to run away from reality, he just becomes closer and closer to the true reality of the world. He meets people and happens to deal with things that he did not want to or get himself into. I sympathize with Holden very much because of all this suffering he has to go through. Although I don't go through nearly half as much suffering as he does, I feel terribly bad for him and almost want to go into the world of the book and help him out in the situations where he needs a friend.”
|
|
|
|
Post by richteri16 on Mar 17, 2014 16:34:29 GMT -5
E. Lately I have been noticing that Holden has been slipping into this world of vice. Between the lies, alcohol, and prostitutes he seems to be getting deeper and deeper into it. At first I thought that I was a one time thing but his time at the hotel changed that. He just has to get another drink or call up another girl. I don’t understand what is up with him. Why does he have to go down this path? All he wants is love so why doesn’t he get it? The latest occurrence in the book has me hoping for the best though, when he meets the nuns. He seems to actually want to be really nice to them. He doesn’t even lie to them so that is good. He even gives them money as a donation just out of the goodness of his heart. I hope this is an idea of things to come for Holden. He really needs a turnaround in his life.
D. I liked when Holden was taking to Sally Hayes on page 108. They are talking and all and eventually she says the word “grand”. Holden’s mental response to this is that he thinks that that word is phone. I found this funny because I feel the exact same way about that word. It is just so normal. there are so many other words that could be used in its place. It is just annoying.
F. I am actually depressed by the whole situation between Sunny and Maurice. It seems that she is just some prostitute and he is her pimp. She seemed like this nice girl on the inside but she is being pushed around my Maurice.
|
|
|
|
Post by michaelgenco on Mar 17, 2014 22:38:12 GMT -5
B. “There was hardly any snow on the sidewalks. But it was freezing cold, and I took my red hunting hat out of my pocket and put it on-I didn’t give a damn how I looked. I even put the earflaps down.”(Salinger 88) This quote reminds me of my uncle Greg. My uncle Greg is just like Holden in that he doesn’t car if he looks like a complete idiot if he is wearing something. The only thing he wants in to be warm. I remember one time it was a sunny day in Florida and my uncle put so much sunscreen on his face he looked like a ghost. He didn’t care how he looked, he just wanted to be sure and protected.
C. “ One of my troubles is, I never care too much when I lose something-it used to drive my mother crazy when I was a kid. Some guys spend days looking fro something they lost. I never seem to have anything the if I lost it I’d care too much.” (Salinger 89) This is completely wrong. Holden cared too much when his brother passed away. That is why he is like this. This is why he doesn’t care about dropping out of school, or getting a prostitute. Why does Holden lie about this? Why is he trying to cover up for him caring too much about stuff? Why does Holden think having a high tolerance for drinking is cool, and is a skill? Also, what does Chateau mean?
I. I agree with richteri16, I feel bad for the prostitute and how she is getting pushed around by her pimp.
|
|
|
|
Post by vazquezm16 on Mar 18, 2014 5:50:45 GMT -5
C. I do not understand why Holden starts on his tangent about people at Pencey who probably stole his gloves. He then continues on this tangent and comes to the point where he says that he does not like fistfights. He says that he does not like to look at their face and wished he could be blindfolded while fighting. I seriously have no idea what he is talking about at this point. He has already started fights with several people so far and now he complains that he does not like to fight. His statement about the blindfold also does not make any sense.
D. I liked the quote where Holden was trying to defend himself against Maurice. “’Why should I give her another five bucks?’ I said. My voice was cracking all over the place. ‘You’re trying to chisel me.’” I think this quote once again shows how Holden gets himself into situations without thinking. It would have been easier to just pay then have to deal with Maurice but Holden would not give in and wanted to appear tough. Even though he is acting tough we can see that he is afraid because his voice is cracking as he is denying Maurice.
I. I agree with stephanoscocoves’ C response. Holden just seemed to rush into the idea of getting a prostitute but then does not seem to be able to go through with it. I think that this is a perfect example of how Holden continues to try and preserve the innocence of people. He went into an adult situation then tried to change it into something innocent by just talking to the prostitute.
|
|
|
|
Post by petergiglio on Mar 18, 2014 7:28:14 GMT -5
a Holden said the hooker was probably around his age and it made him sad to know that. I also think its sad and unfortunate that there are prostitutes that young.
e here is a quote I found interesting “I could make a small contribution.” Holden tells the nun he talks to at breakfast this… I think it really speaks of his character. While Holden is obviously flawed, he clearly is a total jerk or anything like that. He gave a very charitable donation of ten dollars, which was kind of Holden, but I don’t think he did it because he wanted to give money. I think Holden is a very “go with the flow” type person and he recognized he had a large amount and kind of said, “What do I care?” I find Holden has that type of attitude more often than not.
c what I was wondering was Why does Holden take up the offer for the hooker? Why did he lie about his age to Maurice? Why did Maurice tell Holden the cost of the hooker would be five dollars, when it would really be ten? Why does Holden just talk to the hooker, not to sound weird but if you have a hooker in the room already knowing you were going to pay, why not have intercourse with her? He seems to want to call Jane, why doesn’t he? Why “give a buzz” to Sally Hayes, a girl he clearly doesn’t like, when he could call Jane a girl he seems to really like
|
|
|
|
Post by youssefj16 on Mar 18, 2014 17:58:28 GMT -5
C. i thought it was very suprising when Holden was crying when Sunny and the elevator guy was taking 5 dollars. Throughout the whole book, I always say Holden as this tough guy who never really cares about anything but when I read this chapter, I found out that he actually does have emotions other than hate. I also found it funny when the guy kept saying lets get it chief.....CHIEF? F. I am kind of perplexed about the whole seen with Holden and Sunny. So let me get this straight!!!......Holden hires a prostitute for 5 dollars, she comes over, she takes of her dress, sits on Holden, and Holden just wants to talk to her about his life?  ? Why would you talk about your life with a prostitute? This all goes back to my theory of how Holden is becoming very insecure about his love life. He loves Jane, then why not make something happen? I. I kinda agree with richter's F response. Sunny does seem like a kinda nice girl for a prostitute, but than again, if she's getting pushed around so much by Maurice, than why is she still a prostitute? Why doesn't she find a better and safer job> |
|
|
|
Post by zaysofly on Mar 18, 2014 20:55:20 GMT -5
D: I was laughing reading the part when Holden feels embarrassed and leaves the night club and has to walk forty one blocks back to the hotel, yet part of me didn't want him to feel that way. He went to the club to feel closer to home, and then he leaves and feels uncomfortable. Also, it seems weird that he is afraid of confrontation, because remember when attacked star clatter, even though he got beat up he wasn't afraid to show off how he felt physically. I thought it was really awkward when sunny came and he didn't want to sleep with her. It seems whenever he is given an opera unity with women he doesn't know how to act at all. We also see him being a coward when he gets beat up by sunnys pimp Maurice. I think there's a broad happiness when he makes the date with Sally.
F: if I were Holden I would feel really sad, nervouse, and just all around overwrought. I can't be at my club where my brother used to go, I can't sleep with a girl for a mere 10 dollars, and I got beat up and can't look my openant in the face. I just wish I could stop being so scared and man up.
E: I agree with ray park on the fact that Holden should not have had to pay that lady anything. However I think if he didn't pay her anything at all, Maurice would have put a worse beat down on Holden.
|
|
|
|
Post by mikeloseto on Mar 28, 2014 18:19:33 GMT -5
D. When Holden was walking back to his hotel after a failed night at the club, I kind of felt bad for him, especially because he had to walk 40 blocks. What is ironic about it is that he went to the club to feel closer to home but he ended up feeling further away from home there than he did at home. It's a difficult notion to understand but it seems that Holden is just lost. I get the sense that he's "homeless" because it doesn't seem that he as a real place to call home. He's just wandering about, looking for a good time.
I. I agree with what Ray said about Holden and how he shouldn't have paid that lady anything. I mean, I know he kind of had to because if he didn't, Maurice might have beat him up but I don't think he should've gotten himself in that situation in the first place.
G. If I were Holden, I wouldn't have tried to woo those ladies. I think if I just wanted to feel away from home, I would just sit back and watch everyone else. I don't think I would've been that "aggressive" and tried to get women to dance with me.
|
|
? Why would you talk about your life with a prostitute? This all goes back to my theory of how Holden is becoming very insecure about his love life. He loves Jane, then why not make something happen? 