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Post by Mr. Thomas on Oct 15, 2013 16:39:55 GMT -5
Post responses here.
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Post by johnaviles on Oct 15, 2013 17:05:46 GMT -5
C. I was confused when Odysseus tells Achilles how much he was honored when he was alive and how blest he was and that it must suck now that he is dead and can’t experience that same power. I feel like this upsets Achilles and he tries to play it off like death is what he wanted which confused me because he received much glory from battle. “By god, I’d rather slave on earth for another man-some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive-than rule down here over all the breathless dead.”
D. “She’s too much steady, her feelings run too deep, Icarius’ daughter Penelope, that wise woman.” I enjoyed reading this line because Agamemnon says this to Odysseus and I have a feeling this gives Odysseus much hope that his wife Penelope is remaining faithful and this is just one less thing he has to worry about while he is away.
E. I was pretty freaked out when I read that Clytemnestra killed her own husband and daughter. It seems pretty gruesome and she showed no mercy. That’s just sick but it goes to show you how crazy women can be at times. “But the death-cry of Cassandra, the Priam’s daughter-the most pitiful thing I’ve ever heard! My treacherous queen, Clytemnestra, killed her over my body….” “She turned her back on me, well on my way to Death-she even lacked the heart to seal my eyes with her hand or close my jaws…slaughtered her own lawful husband!”
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Post by hankmichels on Oct 15, 2013 17:10:16 GMT -5
D. I think it is a really cool line when Odysseus meets Achilles in the Underworld and he says: “I’d rather be a poor country farmer who is alive then a glorious lord in the underworld.” (Book 11) Right before that, Odysseus asks him if its great being so famous in the underworld, but Achilles must think it sucks no matter how famous you are. I guess this gives us a little insight on the character of Achilles. It shows that now matter how powerful, how strong and how famous he is, he would give all that up instead of dying. And he has a point. I mean, what could be down in the underworld that could possibly be fun. All it is is endless years of sitting around and waiting for nothing.
G. If I were Ajax, I would hate Odysseus also. I mean, he would have caused my death. All though it would have mostly been my fault because I committed suicide. We fought over Achilles armor and for some reason we let the Trojans decide who was the better warior. They chose odysseus and then I killed myself. It is kind of stupid, but since I probably didn’t want to blame myself, I blamed odysseus. “Only the ghost of Great Ajax, son of Telamon kept his distance.” (620-21) so when Odyseus visited us in the underworld, I ignored him.
I. In response to what someone said in class today, I agree that Elpenor’s death was probably a suicide. He came across as kind of a young, ignorant kid, so it could seem that he was looking for attention.
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Post by zaysofly on Oct 15, 2013 19:13:39 GMT -5
D: I thought it was really sad the way he finds out about his mothers death. He was not even home for her death and it just was wrong. I’d be incredibly freaked out if I realized my mother was in the afterlife and I was only able to communicate to her through the afterlife. I mean it felt like an, Oh hi mom, how are you, wait... What are you doing here? I think that reminds me of irony but I’m not sure which kind or irony, dramatic or situational. Agreeing with HankMichels, I also thought it was an insight on the character on Achilles, but I also thought it kind of gave us a visual on how the afterlife is perceived. It doesn’t seem like he likes living in the afterlife at all, and would want to be alive, even though he was previously a very powerful being. I thought it was pretty funny that Ajax, the man who killed himself after he had lost a battle with Odysseus, wouldn’t talk to Odysseus. It was like even though he was dead he would ask for like forgiveness or something like that which is what normal dead people usually do. For instance, Elpenor, even though he died stupidly, he still asks Odysseus to give him a proper burial. C: Who is Sisyphus and why is he being punished by pushing a rock. I don’t remember seeing this character. G: Someone in class today changed my mind about how I felt about Elpenor. So, If I were Odysseus, I would have probably given Elpenor a proper burial because everyone in the afterlife deserves to be at peace.
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Post by richteri16 on Oct 16, 2013 11:52:21 GMT -5
D. I like lines 378-427. Homer unplugs the story form Odysseus’s first person story and puts it back into the third person. This is done flawlessly and I felt really immersed in the story. This is a certain skill that I have a hard time trying to get when writing so it is nice to see it here and learn from it. E. Lines 403-410 shed a new light on Odysseus. To me it seems that he is talking the Phaecians into giving him more gifts as he departs. Apparently King Alcinous bought into this too. He will take an extra day just to get gifts for Odysseus. We already know that Odysseus had this skill of sweet talking people. However he seems to be using it here for not so good intentions. He is being greedy. He knows that the Phaecians like him so he milking them for all they have. F. Apparently Odysseus and Achilles have a pretty good relationship. Lines 541-611 are proof of this. We see Odysseus and Achilles have a long conversation about what they have missed. Odysseus goes into great detail explaining to Achilles how his son is a very brave warrior. He mowed down and killed many Trojan troops. He was even the only one to want to charge out of the Trojan Horse. I don’t think Odysseus would say all this for no reason. If he did not like Achilles he could have just said “Yeah he was pretty brave and he killed a bunch of people so be proud of him”.
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Post by petergiglio on Oct 16, 2013 12:57:59 GMT -5
I. In response to what Hank said about Elpenor wanting attention, I agree with you that he was young and ignorant and seeking attention but suicide would be a pretty stupid way to get the attention that he was seeking because what is he going to do with all the attention he has? Hes dead. Now I mean I know hes looking on from the underworld or that's how I imagine it but still hes dead and cant do anything anymore if attention was what he was looking for. Hes a fool.
G. elabprating more about Elpenor more, if I were odysseus I would have left him there too. the discussions we had in class made my mind do a complete 180 because Elpenor was just being reckless. His recklessness should have some sort of consequence in the after life or in the real world. His stupidity should be dealt with and I think that this time for once in his life Odysseus did the moral thing even if he didn't intend to
D. It really interested me and brought me to an even better understanding of the character Achilles that when he says that he rather be a farmer on earth instead of a glorious god in the underworld. It shows that he would rather be anything thing on earth rather than be famous in the underworld because being dead sucks.
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Post by rozzayhill007 on Oct 16, 2013 18:27:24 GMT -5
Jackson Hill
D. A line that I like happens on page 261 around lines 410. It’s when Odysseus is talking to Alcinous and has just asked him if he could stay one more year. It says, “ ‘Ah Odysseus,’ Alcinous replied, ‘one look at you and we know that you are no one who would cheat us—no fraud, such as the dark soil breeds and spreads across the face of earth these days. Crowds of vagabonds frame their lies so tightly none can test them. But you, what grace you give your words, and what good sense within!” The reason why I like this quote is because Alcinous is basically describing the opposite of Odysseus. He is someone who cheats, lies, and deceives people. He did it to many people in earlier books, such as the Cyclopes, and the town he and his men raided. Odysseus is a man who is dishonest, and Alcinous gives him praise because he thinks that Odysseus is man of honesty, and glory.
I. I agree with what was said in class about giving Elpenor a proper burial. I know that if I were Elpenor I would want a proper burial, instead of just leaving me there.
C. Something that I am confused about is on page 265-266. Ghosts come up on these pages and I am confused on what their role is in this book. If I am reading correctly the ghost are actually spirits who are in peoples imagination, but is the point of them being in this book.
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Post by michaelgenco on Oct 16, 2013 19:05:51 GMT -5
C, “ Phaeacians! How does this man impress you now, his looks, his build , the balanced mind inside him? The stranger is my guest but each of you princes shares the honor here. So lets not be hasty to send him on his way, and don’t scrimp on his gifts. His need is great, great as the riches piled up in you houses, thanks to the gods’ good will.” When I heard this quote I was very confused with what was going on. After all the Odysseus says, killing the Cyclops and other terrible things, the people of Phaeacia still like him? How? Did they hear anything he just said? It was very confusing to me that the people were so interested in what Odysseus was saying. I felt like it was extremely annoying to hear every ghost to greet Odysseus by saying, “Royal son of Laertes, Odysseus, mastermind of war.” Most ghosts came up with a epithet to call Odysseus, and Odysseus would give them one in return. Why would they do that? It seems like something people give as a title of honor, but I wouldn’t want to be called a name under my father.
E, I thought that it was very interesting that Odysseus meet with some of the great warriors. This brought joy to me because it was like two great friends finally meeting again. It felt good to hear Odysseus talk about the war to Heracles and many other great warriors.
I. I agree with hankmichels D answer. I thought that it was awesome when Odysseus meets with Achilles and learn what kind of person he is.
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Post by stephanoscocoves on Oct 16, 2013 20:08:54 GMT -5
I. I agree with rozzayhill007 yea i was confused about the ghosts too. I dint how how they were in the story? D. “ Phaeacians! How does this man impress you now, his looks, his build , the balanced mind inside him? The stranger is my guest but each of you princes shares the honor here. So lets not be hasty to send him on his way, and don’t scrimp on his gifts. His need is great, great as the riches piled up in you houses, thanks to the gods’ good will. I find it funny how the phasecians still like him. E. I thought it was intresting when Odysseus was talking to the other warrior. he was getting very intrested in the things they were saying.
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Post by jotirmoykundu on Oct 17, 2013 3:12:11 GMT -5
C. What confused me in this part of the Odyssey is when Odysseus talks to Achilles about how much he was honored when he was alive and how lucky he was and he was sort of rubbing it in to him because he was saying how he wouldn’t be able to experience it. Achilles was definitely more than mad, but kept reserved and went along with by saying he wanted to die and was happy he did. “By god, I’d rather slave on earth for another man-some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive-than rule down here over all the breathless dead.” D. What I like in this part of the Odyssey is when Odysseus meets Achilles in the Underworld and he says: “I’d rather be a poor country farmer who is alive then a glorious lord in the underworld.” Just before he said that, he was discussing with Odysseus about the underworld and how famous he was. This showed the type of character Achilles and it shows that now matter how powerful or strong he was, he’d give it all up just to live again. I understand his point too because what is there in the underworld that makes up for not being alive anymore? Nothing. I. I agree with the views of the rest of the class with how we feel about Elpanor’s unjustly act after she died. She at least deserved to be buried and given just an overall proper burial, but she was just left there to die, which is terrible.
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Post by nvanible on Oct 17, 2013 5:53:33 GMT -5
E. When the Queen of Phaeacia says, “Phaeacians! How does this man impress you now, his looks, his build, the balanced mind inside him? The stranger is my guest but each of you princes shares the honor here. So let’s not be too hasty to send him on his way, and don’t scrimp on his gifts. His need is great, great as the riches pulled up in your houses, thanks to the gods’ good will,” I loved that she stood up for Odysseus in a way. For example, the queen had been the sort of silent type for most of her appearances throughout the story, but when all of the people of Phaeacia stare at Odysseus, confused and questioning him, she rises up, telling the others that they should still be treating him as a guest, and giving him presents. She seemed to have gotten out of Alcinous’ shadow in a way and has finally give out a voice in her own perspective.
D. When Odysseus explained about Tantalus, “And I saw Tantalus too, bearing endless torture. He stood erect in a pool as the water lapped his chin—parched, he tried to drink, but he could not reach the surface, no, time and again the old man stooped, craving a sip, time and again the water vanished, swallowed down, laying bare the caked black earth at his feet—some spirit drank it dry,” I thought this quote was very explicit. The quote may not have been too important, but it goes into a little depth with how this ghost of a man is suffering because he is prevented from doing something that he should be able to do, proving that ghosts can have emotions at the same extreme as people who are alive.
I. When jotirmoykundu talked about Odysseus mocking Achilles, I felt like he did this because he either felt some of himself in a Achilles, or that he simply wanted to rub in the fact that he is alive but that he somewhat considers Achilles legendary and doesn't know how to cope with somebody like that dead.
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Post by vazquezm16 on Oct 17, 2013 18:03:48 GMT -5
C. I was confused that Achilles would rather be a tenant farmer in the over world than rule over the dead. I am not exactly sure why he would rather be in the over world than dead, at peace, and not dealing with all of life’s problems. I think that one of the reasons why he has this view is because he was a great warrior and now that he is dead he had nobody to fight. It is like since he is dead he has nothing to live for. D. “True, true,’ Agamemnon’s ghost kept pressing on, ‘ so even your own wife-never indulge her too far. Never reveal the whole truth, whatever you may know; just tell her a part of it, be sure to hide the rest. Not that you, Odysseus, will be murdered by your wife. She’s much too steady, her feelings run too deep.” I actually found this quote to be funny because Agamemnon is telling this story and saying how his wife is so treacherous and evil for conspiring against him. He tells of how she doesn’t even have the decency to close his eyes and jaw after he is dead. He then tells Odysseus to be wary of all these things then takes it all back and says it will never happen because Odysseus’ wife is good. I. I agree with richteri16 on Homer’s ability to change the perspective of the narrative and continue the story flawlessly. I was reading along and stopped for a second wondering how Odysseus was talking to Alcinous in the underworld but then I realized that Homer had actually showed that Odysseus had stopped telling the story for a second. I think it was a very good break from the narrative.
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Post by Ray Park on Oct 18, 2013 1:17:46 GMT -5
C. This Part of the book was interesting. I was a little confused on why Queen Arete would tell the Phaecians to give Odysseus more gifts even though the things that he has been telling in his story are pretty bad. Does this just show how kind the Phaecians are? Are the phaecians trying to get soemthing from him? I was also shocked and confused on about what achilles has said and commented about death. I feel like he still has his personality of arrogance, being invincible, and also his attitude towards things. Although he hasnt seen his son and doesnt knw anything about him, he asks Odysseus about his son if his son, Neoplotimus, continues to lead on his own reputation. This is a pretty selfish act i thought about Odysseus. D. I liked when Odysseus was talking to Tantalaus “And I saw Tantalus too, bearing endless torture. He stood erect in a pool as the water lapped his chin—parched, he tried to drink, but he could not reach the surface, no, time and again the old man stooped, craving a sip, time and again the water vanished, swallowed down, laying bare the caked black earth at his feet—some spirit drank it dry,”. I liked this part of the scene because it shows how horrible and terrible the punishments can be. Tantalaus's punishment, to me, is far the worst punishment. I. I agree with jot on how he says he was also confused with the part of Achilles.
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Post by Cameron Smith on Nov 5, 2013 20:34:42 GMT -5
D. I thought it was really sad the way he finds out about his mother’s death. He was not even home for her deat. I’d be incredibly freaked out if I realized my mother was in the afterlife and I was only able to communicate to her through the afterlife. I mean it felt like an, Oh hi mom, how are you, wait... What are you doing here? I think that reminds me of irony but I’m not sure which kind or irony, dramatic or situational. Agreeing with HankMichels, I also thought it was an insight on the character on Achilles, but I also thought it kind of gave us a visual on how the afterlife is perceived. It doesn’t seem like he likes living in the afterlife at all, and would want to be alive, even though he was previously a very powerful being. I thought it was pretty funny that Ajax, the man who killed himself after he had lost a battle with Odysseus, wouldn’t talk to Odysseus. It was like even though he was dead he would ask for like forgiveness or something like that which is what normal dead people usually do. For instance, Elpenor, even though he died stupidly, he still asks Odysseus to give him a proper burial. F. Apparently Odysseus and Achilles have a good relationship. On Lines 541-611 there is an example of this. We see Odysseus and Achilles have a long conversation about what they have missed. Odysseus goes into great detail explaining to Achilles how his son is a very brave warrior. He mowed down and killed many Trojan troops. He was even the only one to want to charge out of the Trojan Horse. I don’t think Odysseus would say all this for no reason. If he did not like Achilles he could have just said “Yeah he was pretty brave and he killed a bunch of people so be proud of him”. I. I agree with what was said in class about giving Elpenor a proper burial. I know that if I were Elpenor I would want a proper burial, instead of just leaving me there to rot.
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