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Post by Mr. Thomas on Mar 12, 2014 6:51:44 GMT -5
Holden's night on the town.
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Post by richteri16 on Mar 12, 2014 16:21:24 GMT -5
C. I am really confused and a bit creeped out by this thing Holden has been doing lately. Why is he so into alder women? Seriously this is the third time that he has tried to make a move on a woman that is way older than him. First there was the mother he met on the train. Then there was that girl who was basically a prostitute that he called at the hotel. Then he decided to talk to the women at the club at the hotel. These women were around thirty but he still saw that as fair game. That is a bit weird to me. You do not have a romantic relationship with a woman who is 15 years older than you. Really, really weird.
E. I liked the cab driver Horwitz. He is just really dumb and really funny. Holden is trying to ask him a simple question about where the ducks go in the winter. The man just cant seem to grasp the nature of his question. He then changes the subject to the fish in the pond and proceeds to flip out on Holden when he dosent know the answer.
H. This is the set of Ernie’s. The place is really tiny with a super low ceiling. The lighting is dim and everyone is crammed in tight. Suddenly everything gets quiet as a big guy walks out to the piano. A small light shines on his face as he belts out a mediocre song. After he gets up, bows, and walks away. After everyone talks again even though you cant hear your own voice because it is so loud.
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Post by jotirmoykundu on Mar 12, 2014 18:31:06 GMT -5
C. In this section of the reading, I got confused with what Holden has been doing lately. He likes older women a lot! First there was the mother he met on the train. Then there was a girl that he called to the hospital, who was a prostitute and she was obviously older than him. Then he decided to talk to the women at the club at the hotel. These women were around thirty but he still went for it. You do not have a romantic relationship with a woman who is roughly twenty years older for you and the fact that you think you have a shot makes it all the funnier and creepy.
D. In this section on the reading, I liked the cab driver Horwitz. He is just a really comical character that just puts a smile on your face. Holden just asks him the simple question on when the ducks go in the winter, but the man is so confused and cant understand what he’s asking.
I. I agree with Ian Richter’s “H response” : “This is the set of Ernie’s. The place is really tiny with a super low ceiling. The lighting is dim and everyone is crammed in tight. Suddenly everything gets quiet as a big guy walks out to the piano. A small light shines on his face as he belts out a mediocre song. After he gets up, bows, and walks away. After everyone talks again even though you cant hear your own voice because it is so loud.”
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Post by hankmichels on Mar 12, 2014 19:15:49 GMT -5
E. I found it really interesting how Holden tries to act really mature. When he goes down to the lavender club, im curious but then he starts hitting on some “Tourist Hicks” who are a lot older them. You cant tell that they either think its cute or feel sorry for him because they play along, but it is kind of sad and it shows how lonely Holden really is. Another thing I found interesting was that Holdens hair was grey. I don’t know if he was born like that or if maybe during the time of his brothers death, he was under a lot of stress and his hair greyed because of that. And it had to have been an Old Person Grey for people to mistake him for an old person. Over all I found these 3 chapters very interesting in how lonely holden was shown to be.
F. I think that Holdens relationship with his sister is not very strong. If it was I feel like he would have mentioned her early on. When he is describing his brother and how smart he was, he didn’t give any indication that is sister was also smart, or a lot like allie. In fact im not even sure if I knew he had a sister until now. I at least didn’t know her name, phoebe. Maybe they just never had much in common and Holden forgot to bring her up.
C. Why does holden keep mentioning that he seems to become friends with cab drivers? Maybe cause hes lonely.
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Post by hankmichels on Mar 12, 2014 19:16:43 GMT -5
I. I also agree with richteri16. the way holden is acting is kind of creepy.
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Post by hessd16 on Mar 12, 2014 19:42:55 GMT -5
I agree with hankmichaels : E. I found it really interesting how Holden tries to act really mature. When he goes down to the lavender club, im curious but then he starts hitting on some “Tourist Hicks” who are a lot older them. You cant tell that they either think its cute or feel sorry for him because they play along, but it is kind of sad and it shows how lonely Holden really is. Another thing I found interesting was that Holdens hair was grey. I don’t know if he was born like that or if maybe during the time of his brothers death, he was under a lot of stress and his hair greyed because of that. And it had to have been an Old Person Grey for people to mistake him for an old person. Over all I found these 3 chapters very interesting in how lonely holden was shown to be.
C. Why does Holden stare at these girls profusely? He doesn't stop, "gives them the eye". I'm glad to see that he is happy and I guess Is having fun but this is a little much. Maybe he is trying to get rid of his loneliness.
E. I noticed that the way he describes "old Phoebe" is very similar to the way he described Allie. He speaks very highly of Phoebe but says she is "too emotional" which is ironic due to what seems like Holden''s chronic case of loneliness. Also the fact that he leaves the club due to seeing D.B.'s ex girlfriend is a sign of high emotions.
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Post by stephanoscocoves on Mar 12, 2014 20:04:29 GMT -5
I. I agree with hessd16 E. It seems they were both really similiar. C. Holden seems very lonely. He is going from one night club to the next and talks about his lvoe for Jane. He seems very close to her. I think he needs Jane in his life for him to be happy again. E. I noticed that he has a lot of siblings. I wonder if he has anyothers and why he hasnt really talked about his older brother and why he onlybrought up phoebe untill now.
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Post by raypark on Mar 12, 2014 20:12:22 GMT -5
E. These chapters are really interesting. Holden tries to entertain himself as much as he possibly can to get out of his lonliness and depressing mood. For a bit he really does a good job getting his mind off of his struggles. First at the hotel bar, he asked a decently pretty blond girl named Bernice, who was about 20 years older than he was, to a nice dance. The dance really lightened Holden's mood but didn't for long because he had to dance with Bernice's friends. That was very funny. He described that dancing with one of the girls was like dragging around the Statue of Liberty. He also says that he completely jokes around with them, which is very entertaining to imagine from the reader's perspective.
C. There are lots of moments when Holden goes back into his memories thinking about all the joys and good times in his life. In the past, it seemed as if he was actually living a great life and was not as pessimistic as he is now. When he describes his moments and times with Old Jane, playing sports together and talking together, he seemed to be very happy and in a great moood. Maybe it was because he was with a girl that he really liked or because he was generally happy back then. If he was generally a lot happier as a child, what happend or what event occured that drastically changed his whole attitude towards life and personality? Why was he such a happy person before and now a very pessimistic and depressing one? Also what his Holden's relationship with D.B.? He mentions his older brother D.B. a couple times through out the chapters, his brother being a hollywood prostitute and selling himself. But also he talks about moments when D.B. took Holden to nightclubs and brought Holden around places. Yet Holden never said that he liked nor disliked his brother. What is his true relationship with him?
I. I agree with Hank Michaels when he says that it was funny to see Holden act so much more mature for his age. I also agree with him saying that it is kinda weird for Holden to be hitting on these "Tourisst Chicks" when they are all so much older than him. To be honest I would give him so much respect for having the guts to do so, but it is still a little weird and almost creepy, especially when he eyeballs Bernice from another table.
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Post by petergiglio on Mar 12, 2014 21:19:26 GMT -5
E. “Real ugly girls have it tough. I feel so sorry for them sometimes. Sometimes I can’t even look at them.” It is kind of cruel for him to say this, and for me to find it so funny, but I just like that he sees these things in his life. I find him weird because he seems so educated and smart like he says the rest of his family is, but he doesn’t think so; I think he is just as smart he just doesn’t apply himself.
D. I just wanted to comment on Salinger’s style of writing. I can hear the voice of a lost, confused, and witty seventeen-year-old young adult as a read this story. This style of writing absolutely captivates and makes me want to continue reading.
C. why does Holden refer to some people with the word “old” in front of it? What time period in New York was this when a young adult around 17 could easily get a drink in clubs? Why did Holden go to the Lavender room if there was no where there his age to hang out with? Does Holden have feelings for Jane? Why does he think back to a memory he had with her during the summer? What is Holden’s obsession with the ducks in the pond all about? Why does he continue to ask cab drivers about this? Why does he even make conversation with his taxi drivers? That isn't something typical about a regular cab ride.
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Post by michaelgenco on Mar 12, 2014 21:21:55 GMT -5
D. “I certainly felt like talking to her on the phone. Somebody with sense and all. But I couldn’t take a chance on giving her a buzz, because she was only a little kid and she wouldn’t have been up, let alone anywhere near the phone. I thought of maybe hanging up if my parents answered, but that wouldn’t’ve worked, either. They’d know it was me. My mother always knows it’s me.” (Salinger 67) I really find it annoying how every time Holden wants to call someone he puts it off for some lame excuse that he comes up with in his mind. We saw this in last chapter where he wanted to talk to Jane and another girl but chickened out and didn’t call anyone. JUST CALL SOMEONE HOLDEN!
C. What is with the short precise sentences? “ It’s really nice though. She’s only ten. She’s quite skinny, like me, but nice skinny. Roller- skate skinny.”Salinger 67) Reading this it seems like Holden is reflecting on memories of his sister Phoebe. Does Holden think the reader is his friend? When describing his sister he constantly says You’d like her like I know him in real life. “She killed Allie, too. I mean he liked her, too.” (Salinger 68) To me these little words foreshadow the future of this book. To me it seems like Holden wants to say the truth, but loves his wiser so much that he doesn’t want her to get into trouble.
I. I agree with Raypark’s ‘E’ response in how these chapters Holden is entertaining himself which is very funny to me.
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Post by zaysofly on Mar 12, 2014 21:48:21 GMT -5
D: I think these chapters really show how confused and disgruntled about women and his own age. He is just confused about a lot of things really. I thought it was hilarious how he tries to hid on the girls that were like two times his age and way out of his league. I mean, he didint want to like be with them, he just wanted to dance, which he really likes to do. I think in this chapter, we see Holden really slapped in the face with his age. Like when he asks for Alcohol and he cant buy it. Or when he tries to kiss the girl, and she denies him and tells him to watch his mouth, like he is a little kid. Also, i don't know if anyone else notices this but when he explains something that he is talking about, he is very repetitive. For example, when he is talking about his sister and he constantly says, man you would like her. Also when he is talking about dancing with the blond girl. He keeps repeating, but daym, could she dance.
E: If i were Holden i would feel pretty down about myself. I cant buy alcohol. I cant get these girls to be serious with me. I dont know how this girl thing works, but i cant stop thinking about Jane. I really would like to call her. I miss my parents too.
C: Why did jane cry that day when the dad asked her for cigarettes?
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Post by bakerm16 on Mar 12, 2014 22:38:40 GMT -5
E. Everyone is saying how Holden being into older women and hitting on them is creepy. I however respect him for this it takes guts to talk to woman 15+ years older than you. Plus it makes you think about how important Jane is to him where its easy for him to talk to women but when it comes to Jane he just loses all of his confidence.
G. I am imagining the scene at the night club and the setting. I notice that there are many people there are there are a lot of different lights and colors. I would kinda feel awkward if I were Holden because he might be the only minor that is in the night club.
I. I agree with Ray Park's E response. We are used to seeing melancholy Holden but it is nice seeing this more lively side of him that would seem like an actually enjoyable person to be around with for more than a few hours.
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Post by vazquezm16 on Mar 13, 2014 6:04:01 GMT -5
C. I do not understand Holden’s logic behind trying to pick up the women in the club. He refers to them as “three witches” and then starts giving them “the eye”. He then randomly says that he loves dancing and he wants to dance and he invites the girls from the table over. He then continues to make fun of how they freak out when he continues to ask them to dance. I feel like Holden is either very indecisive or just really does not care about what happens to him. He is happy to dance with her but then consistently continues to think of her as moron. I. I agree with richteri16’s C response. Holden does seem to only be into people slightly older than himself. The only girl around his age that he had a relationship with was Jane. I think this perfectly shows how Holden still has not gotten over Jane. I think that since Holden still has not gotten over Jane that it has hurt his relationship with women. He judges them based solely on their appearance, I think, because he does not want to spend the time to form an emotional attachment to another girl. He does not want to spend the time getting to know someone and get hurt by them, like how he was affected by Allie’s death. D. I really liked Horwitz’ quote before he left Holden. “IF you was a fish, Mother Nature’d take care of you, wouldn’t she? Right? You don’t think them fish just die when it gets to be winter, do ya?” I thought it was pretty funny that this random cab driver had started talking about fish with Holden and had really started to get into it. It showed how Holden could get people to talk about the most mundane things.
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Post by youssefj16 on Mar 18, 2014 17:45:12 GMT -5
I. I agree with richter's post about why Holden is into older women. He goes into a night club acting like he's older and expects to get alcahol. Than he tries to pick up women who apparently aren't that attractive and then dances with one of them and keeps telling her that she's a good dancer. I think he is just really desperate and that he just needs somebody in his life that cares about him. E. I kinda found it funny about how stupid the three women at the night club were. The whole night, they expected some famous actor to walk in some random night club and sweep them off their feet. Like seriously? Also, whenever Holden would ask them a question, they would just ignore him and look around the room for the actor. It was also funny and quite annoying when Holden kept telling the girl he was dancing with that she was a great dancer. In response to baker's e response: I disagree about how it takes guts to talk to older women. He knew that there wasn't going to be anything serious happening with older women so it should be easier to talk with them. I do agree with how baker said that he cares about Jane because he gets nervous when he talks to her or wants to talk to her. You could also tell that he cares about Jane because whenver he talks about women, he always mentions Jane. It seems as if he's trying to avoid Jane because he cares too much about her and replace her with older women so that nothing serious would happen. I feel like he should just talk to Jane and face his fears.
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Post by rozzayhill007 on Mar 18, 2014 21:15:49 GMT -5
C. Why does Holden constantly talk about the cab driver. I think maybe he feels a different connection with the cab driver than he does with most other people. Maybe he feels closer to the cab driver than he does with other people who are constantly in his life.
E. I found the three women at the club very interesting. They basically just ignored Holden the whole time, like he was a ghost. Their actions really confused me.
I. I agree with what Ray said in his E response. He start to see the happier side of Holden, but in early chapters we saw the more depressed side of him. it's nice to see a variation of Holden and not just one characteristic of him being depressed most of the time
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