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Post by Mr. Thomas on Mar 6, 2014 19:14:43 GMT -5
Defending Jane Gallagher's honor.
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Post by richteri16 on Mar 6, 2014 21:02:25 GMT -5
C. Why is Holden so quick to violence? He claims he is a pacifist but he put Stradlater in a chokehold and then he attacked him. Could it be that he is frustrated that he is being kicked out? Or maybe it is that Stradlater is taking the girl that he liked? But still someone does not just flip out like that.
E. I feel that Holden could be a good friend. He does seem to lack motivation and is not too bright but he would be a good guy to know. First, he seems to stick up for people he respects. An example is the girl that Stradlater took from him. Also he has an honest opinion and personality. He is not fake like Stradlater. He also tells you the truth and what you need to hear, which is important for a friend to do. Finally, he just seems to have a really funny way he conducts himself. His whole manner seems a little dumb but funny at the same time. Overall I could see him as a likeable type of guy.
E. I have noticed that Stradlater is just flat out fake. He is going for all the manly and bro type qualities. He makes sure he is looking absolutely perfect. He spends forever grooming himself and then wont stop talking about it. He also considers himself absolutely perfect and fabulous. On top of all this he ranks himself more than others. Notice how he just bosses Holden around like to do his paper. The most important thing is how soft he really is on the inside. He could not take a little ridicule from Holden so he flips out. After he punches him in the nose Stradlater gets all worried.
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Post by hessd16 on Mar 6, 2014 21:48:19 GMT -5
I. I agree with richteri16 "E. I feel that Holden could be a good friend. He does seem to lack motivation and is not too bright but he would be a good guy to know. First, he seems to stick up for people he respects. An example is the girl that Stradlater took from him. Also he has an honest opinion and personality. He is not fake like Stradlater. He also tells you the truth and what you need to hear, which is important for a friend to do. Finally, he just seems to have a really funny way he conducts himself. His whole manner seems a little dumb but funny at the same time. Overall I could see him as a likeable type of guy."
A. Holden’s relationship with Ackley is like situations that occur in real life, this really does reflect his attempt to write as the mid thinks. While Holden does not exactly like Ackley, he puts up with him and is kind of nice to him. Though this is the only person Holden puts up with. There is sometimes where you just have to put up with some people, however clingy they may be.
C. i also have the same question as richteri16 as to why Holden is so quick to violence.
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Post by raypark on Mar 6, 2014 21:54:50 GMT -5
C. I really like the part when Ackley, Holden, and Brossard go and attempt to watch a movie. This scene, although a little bit mean, shows the human side and child-like side of Holden. This scene shows that Holden wants to have fun and get into things. It also emphasizes the point that Ackley is Holden's only and best friend because Holden begs Brossard to take Ackley with them. But what exactly does he want to accpmplish? I am just curious about if he really wants to be close with these guys or he is trying to pass some time.
A. I really understand where Holden gets all his negativity from. When Holden talks about his lost younger brother Allie, he also shows where all the pain and negativity is coming from. I think that Holden has not only been scarred for life because of his brother's death but greatly traumatized by this expierience. I think that Holden was wondering why Allie had to die when Allie had everything going for him. I feel kinda bad for Holden. He isn't able to show any sympathy after his brohter's death and nobody knows why he is so negative.
I. I agree with Ian Richter about Holden being a very good friend. Seeing how Holden was talking about his Brother, I feel that he still has the older brother side in him and his capability in taking care of others that are around him due to the amount of care he must have given to his brother. I think that Holden doesn't want to have a deep relationship with anyone because if that certain person that he deeply cares about is lost or gone from his life, he will revisit that same pain he fely when his brother died.
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Post by michaelgenco on Mar 6, 2014 22:38:54 GMT -5
E. I really find it funny how Holden imagines Stradlater to be the ‘cool’ guy. When Holden goes to the bathroom with him in chapter four, a glue about Stradlater was dropped. Stradlater is a "secret slob”, he always looks put together and smells nice and all that jazz, but secret things, like his razor blade, are all crumby and filled with hair and rust. This shows that Stradlater is all perfect after all. Also, I thought it was funny when Stradlater was going to go on a date with Jane. Hearing that her step- dad is an alcoholic who used to run around the house naked all the time kind of makes me laugh.
C. Is Holden using Ackley just to feel better? At the end of Chapter four Holden is relieved when Ackley come back because it ‘Gives him something to do’. Does he actually want to be with him, or does he just hang out around him like when attractive girls hang out with ugly girls to look even better. Why doesn’t Holden throw the snowball? He is so indecisive.
I. In response to what Mr. Thomas said about his stalker in college. Ackley is exactly that. I don’t remember if we went over this but when Ackley sits on Holden's bed and picks his pimples and won't leave after a barrage of hints that, really, he should leave. It is funny because Ackley comes up with a sex story that everyone knows is made up and makes him look pathetic.
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Post by bakerm16 on Mar 6, 2014 22:46:32 GMT -5
E. I find it interesting how Holden always says everything he doesn't like about a person before saying that they're actually a good person. In chapter 4 he did this while describing Stradlater an earlier in the book he said that about old spencer. Am I the only one that notices that? I think its weird because no normal high school kid thinks that way. When we compare Holden to the typical Xavier kid you can tell that he is not your average kid.
As you read through the book you can tell that Holden really misses Pencey he keeps mentioning it for example he was talking about how they had dinner at Pencey in the beginning of chapter 5 you can tell he misses being there
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Post by petergiglio on Mar 6, 2014 22:58:43 GMT -5
e. It really amused me to hear the "inside scoop" of the real stradlater after all and that he isn't all looks and is perfect. I like the way that Holden thinks of stradlater as the most popular and cool kid cause usually in a book like this with a kid like Holden, he really hates the popular kid. But here he rooms with him and actually kind of looks up to him... It's very interesting and struck me then most when I read this passage
c. What I am confused about is, being that Holden hates so many people, nearly everyone that he likes stradlater. I felt that Holden would target his as phony or trying to be top perfect but he has a really nice opinion of him and even defends him when Ackley says that he doesn't like them. It's quite odd, like I said, knowing Holden and his personality, in would assume that he would a hey stradlater
C. I am confused as to why now, Holden decided to attack stradlater, when all this time he spoke so highly of him.... I feel like it was just boddled up emotion and frustration that finally busted
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Post by vazquezm16 on Mar 7, 2014 6:54:38 GMT -5
C. I am confused about Holden’s relationship with Stradlater. Holden seems to have a decent relationship with Stradlater as seen when they are talking while he is shaving. Holden at least seems all right having him as a roommate. After he comes back from his date with Jean though Holden acts differently. Stradlater complains about the essay that he wanted Holden to write. This seems like Stradlater is just using him, because when he tore up the essay he got agitated.
D. I struggle to understand why Holden does the things he does. “I’d been to the movies with Brossard and Ackley before. They both laughed like hyenas at stuff that wasn’t even funny. I didn’t even enjoy sitting next to them in the movies.” Holden says this after the go to the movies and leave because they’d all seen the one playing. It really seems like he does not care for these people at all and just tolerates them in his life. It really seems like Holden does not have any genuine friends, only people who give him something to do sometimes.
E. I still feel like Holden does not even think about the decisions he makes. He gets angry with Stradlater after he comes back from the date. He starts insulting Stradlater because he does not think that Stradlater was good enough to Jean. He keeps insulting Stradlater until he attacks Holden and they almost get into a fight. I do not even understand why Holden cares so much about Jean, but he would not even go say hello to her before she left for the date. It just seems that Holden purposefully makes bad decisions so that he can be in bad situations. It is like he enjoys being in trouble or possibly being the center of attention.
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Post by hankmichels on Mar 7, 2014 12:07:59 GMT -5
F. So Stradlaters and Holdens relatiknship really surprised me. I thought that stradlater would be either really mean or reall nice to holden, but in either situation they would not be friends. It appears to be in these three chapters that these guys have a steady somewhat-friend relationship going. It was only because of a girl that they got into a fight, but besides that they seemed to treat each other fine.
D. “I went over to my window and opened it and packed a snowball with my bare hands. The snow was very good for packing. I didn’t throw it at anything, though. I started to throw it. At a car that was parked across the street. But I changed my mind. The car looked so nice and white. Then I started to throw it at a hydrant, but that looked so nice and white too. Finally I didn’t throw it at anything. All I did was close the window and walk around the room with it, packing it harder.” This quote in chapter 4 is so random, yet really cool. This is just some random thing holden is going on about while Ackley is getting ready. There is no point in including it in the story at all. But it is interesting. Ive had that feeling when it has just snowed and I don’t want to disturb anything because it looks so perfect. Maybe this shows that there is a soft side of holden that can appreciate the beauty in the world.
E. I was wrong about holden. He does appear to have some friends in his school.
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Post by youssefj16 on Mar 8, 2014 13:18:19 GMT -5
C.In reply to richter on his C. response: maybe the reason he is so quick to violence is because he is angry that Stradlater took the girl that he liked. If that ever happened to me, I would be very upset and angry and would love to put him in a chokehold. It could also be that Holden is jealous of Stradlater. It seems to me that Stradlater is the "popular guy" and that he's the one who gets all the chicks.
I. I agree with michealgenco and Mr. Thomas about how ackley is a stalker. He seems like the kind of guy that doesn't get the hint that you dont like him. I also feel like he was never taught manners growing up. Who picks pimples on somebody else's bed? That's just freaky!
A. I now kind of understand that Holden's pain and misery is coming from his brothers death. Whenever he talks about Allie, you can sense his pain and what he is really going through. All this time, I just thought of Holden as some degenerate who is always negative for no reason. But now it all makes sense.
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Post by stephanoscocoves on Mar 8, 2014 14:26:33 GMT -5
E. I surprised that Holden actually used violence against stradlater. I understand that he was anger and had a lot of emotion built up inside of him about his brother. But still. and even more surprised that stradlater hit him back. C. I was confused why Holden did not want to go meet the girl he likes. was he afraid or was there something more to their relationship that happened. I. I agree with hankmichels E. I honestly think that Holden is kind of popular. |
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Post by zaysofly on Mar 10, 2014 17:17:25 GMT -5
D: I thought it was really funny how Holden is just reading a book and all of a sudden Ackley comes out of nowhere and starts annoying Holden. Also, whats up with that extremely flamboyant hat? it seems like the oxymoron of a hunting hat. Also, why does Ackley hate Stradlater if hes so popular. He should be nice to him and hang with him more often, and maybe shower more. Stradlater and Ackley are almost alike, says holden, where as they are both slobs, but ackley is a total slob, and stradlater is a secret slob. so maybe Stradlater and ackley do have some things in common. The Pencey boys seem like a good influence on Holden, they can all have fun and hang out. maybe this will get Holdens mind off of his dead brother. Holden seems to see Allie as this girl who was very innocent and i am picking up on an innocence theme in this story.
E: If i was Holden i would not do the english assignment for Stradlater, mainley because he is going out on a date with Jane a girl i actually like, and knowing how popular and sexually active Stradlater is, he will probably just use Jane and wont treat her with respect. id make sure they didnt go out.
F: I disagree with hessd16, i think Holden is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. maybe its not right to result to violence, but Holden has been through a lot and it is expected that he is overwrought.
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Post by jotirmoykundu on Mar 11, 2014 15:51:00 GMT -5
C. What I was confused about in this assessment of the reading was why Holden was hesitant when he was going to meet the girl he likes. Was it a shock factor of him being afraid or was there something that happened in their relationship?
D. I do not understand why Holden does the things he does. “I’d been to the movies with Brossard and Ackley before. They both laughed like hyenas at stuff that wasn’t even funny. I didn’t even enjoy sitting next to them in the movies.” Holden says this after they go to the movies. He makes it appear that he does not like any of the people in his life right now and just tolerates them to pass time. Holden’s friends are really just so he has something to do.
I. I agree with richteri16 "E. I feel that Holden could be a good friend. He does seem to lack motivation and is not too bright but he would be a good guy to know. First, he seems to stick up for people he respects. An example is the girl that Stradlater took from him. Also he has an honest opinion and personality. He is not fake like Stradlater. He also tells you the truth and what you need to hear, which is important for a friend to do. Finally, he just seems to have a really funny way he conducts himself. His whole manner seems a little dumb but funny at the same time. Overall I could see him as a likeable type of guy."
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Post by rozzayhill007 on Mar 18, 2014 20:51:50 GMT -5
C. I am confused on why Holden is so timid. He is going to see a girl who he likes, but he is so scared to even talk to her. Why be nervous, he doesn't have much to lose in talking to her, so he should just go for it
I. I agree with Hanks F response. I was also surprised by Holden's and Stradlaters relationship. I didn't really know what to expect of it, but for the most part they have a good "friendship." It is kind of wierd but it works for the two of them.
E. I feel that Holden defending Jane is the right thing to do. He isn't going to let anyone step all over her. He will stand up for her about anything
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Post by mikeloseto on Mar 28, 2014 17:30:37 GMT -5
C. Similar to what Stephanos said, I was also confused as to why Holden wouldn't want to go see the girl he liked, Jane. I was wondering why he was so timid. It's not like he had much to lose because he virtually didn't care about anything. It doesn't seem like he would care about what Jane would say so I'm not sure why he wouldn't just go for it.
I. I agree with what Hank said about Holden's relationship with Stradlater. It seems awkward and uncomfortable. They aren't really friends. This relationship is similar to Holden's relationship with Ackley. It wasn't really sough by the two of them , it kind of just happened and it seemed kind of forced.
E. When Holden stood up for Jane, I gained a lot of respect for him. I thought that this was the exact situation in which he needed to show he was a man and he could do something for someone else and he did it. I'm very glad that he stood up for Jane when he needed support. This is what Holden needed to do, especially if he wanted to eventually go out with Jane or have a better relationship with her.
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