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Post by Mr. Thomas on Feb 6, 2014 14:49:50 GMT -5
Don't forget:
-What do their titles means?
-How are the poems related?
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Post by hankmichels on Feb 6, 2014 18:01:38 GMT -5
F. im not going to talk about the relationship between characters, but instead, the relationships between the two poems. Hope that works. Judging by what the authors of both poems are describing, (especially the one with the long latin title or whatever language that is. French?) I would have to say that these poems are about a war, and since mcmxiv means 1914, WWI. MCMXIV is talking about men lined up outside, so maybe its men being lined up for a draft? Or maybe the are lined up in military formation. I don’t know. Dulce…whatever seems to be about some beaten soldiers marching behind enemy lines. They are in really shape (missing boots and bleeding). Then some gas cannisters fly out of nowhere and kill one of there number. Im guessing that both of these poem’s goal was to demonstrate the horror of war. And maybe combined, they both really show something. The soldiers are peacefully lined up in some outdoor par, and later they’re being gassed to death.
D. Id be sadistic if I said I enjoyed this line, but ill rephrase it by saying that I like the way that this is worded: “GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling, Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time” (Dulce…). This line is interesting in the sense that the author almost breaks character. The poem starts out in in a confusing, artsy way. But then all of a sudden gas flies out and he starts talking normally. Its almost like he was woken from a trance. A trance which he goes back into after the death of the soldier.
E. Maybe since mcmxiv was written in the 60s, the author was looking at a picture…
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Post by wagnerj16 on Feb 6, 2014 19:14:30 GMT -5
I. I think that hankmichels explained the relationship of the poems perfectly, “Judging by what the authors of both poems are describing,I would have to say that these poems are about a war, and since mcmxiv means 1914, WWI. MCMXIV is talking about men lined up outside, so maybe its men being lined up for a draft? Or maybe the are lined up in military formation. I don’t know. Dulce…whatever seems to be about some beaten soldiers marching behind enemy lines. They are in really shape. Then some gas cannisters fly out of nowhere and kill one of their number. Im guessing that both of these poem’s goal was to demonstrate the horror of war. And maybe combined, they both really show something. The soldiers are peacefully lined up in some outdoor par, and later they’re being gassed to death” But I did find the meaning of the second title its It is sweet and fitting to die for your country. D. One line that I liked was the first stanza in MCMXIV. I really liked these lines because they were descriptive but i had no idea what they meant. But when I looked up what it meant I finally understood that it was people in line. And due to the title I knew they were in line to sign up for the military to fight. And you can tell a lot of them had hats on, and mustaches because it says it. C. I don’t understand what the last stanza in MCMXIV means “Never such innocence”? |
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Post by richteri16 on Feb 6, 2014 19:20:16 GMT -5
B. Both of these poems have a similarity between each other. The first major detail that the two share are their titles. First “MCMXIV” is translated to 1914, which is the year WWI started. “Dulce et decorum est” is Latin and is translated to “sweet and fitting it is”. Now, the “Dulce et decorum est” is about a man’s terrible experience during WWI. In it a man dies from a gas attack. Maybe his death was “sweet and fitting” in a way. It was a terrible way to go out and a fitting way to die in war. In the end of the poem it repeats this phrase but also adds more to say this: “Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori”. This means sweet and fitting it is to die for ones country. “MCMXIV” is similar because first, its title refers to the year WWI started. Second, the poem paints a picture of a nation at war. Nobody is around except for the old rich men and the children. The whole situation seems bleak and dreary as all its innocence is taken away at time of war.
E. I like the way the author of “Dulce et decorum est” described WWI. All the soldiers are exhausted and shells of what used to be people. The author also describes the panic and urgency to get the gas masks on during a gas attack. The way the author describes the soldiers death is perfectly disturbing as well. He captured the essence of dying the horrible death of drowning in your own fluids.
H. I could really see the set for MCMXIV. There is a fog in the air. Everything is colored brown, black, or grey. It is eerily silent and there are only some children playing in the distance. A limo drives by with a fat man in it smoking a cigar. There seems to be a tense feeling of dread in the air.
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Post by zaysofly on Feb 6, 2014 19:56:56 GMT -5
D: I feel like the Poem Dulce Et Decorum Est has a more deep and dark beginning compared to the poem MCMXIX. Although they have different tones, i noticed that they were each both comparing two things bring similar to one another. I think that these two pieces are about war, within the time periods that we are reading the Metamorphosis. I noticed in the Dulce Et Decorum Est poem that he mentioned how people were drowning in the green sea. Which caught to me as death. Also in MCMXIV it starts off with uneven lines. I thought this represented Chaos within the setting. People cannot make proper limes and none cares. When i looked up the Authors It says that they were both soldiers in the Army during WWI. This obviously would have a heavy influence on their deep and dark death poems. I like the lines in Dulce Et Decorum Est "In all my dreams before my helpless sight he plunges at me guttering choking drowning." It seems he might have some PTSD from the War and is envisioning people dying.
C: When i looked up MCMXIV i got up a picture of a bunch of people standing in front of a police station. Why is that? Where is the poems taking place, like one mentions the Oval and the Villa Park.
E: I agree with Hank on the fact that he says that these two poems took place during a war.
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Post by stephanoscocoves on Feb 6, 2014 21:29:38 GMT -5
C. I was confused on how the poem was written. I thought poems were supposed to have a smooth feeling to them, not this poem. It was very choppy. Almost like the author kept adding things to write in the same thought. The way it was written was very hard to read I had to read it a second time to make sure I, myself wasnt just reading it wrong.
I. I agree with Jack Wagner on his comment about the last stanza in MCMXIV. I dont really understand the last stanza either, it felt out of place. In fact the whole poem was very odd.
D. I like the third paragraph in the Dulce Et Decorum Est, I felt that it was very emotional, and that there was a lot of pain and suffering felt while writing each and every one of those words.
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Post by michaelgenco on Feb 6, 2014 21:53:16 GMT -5
I.
In response to what we were talking about in class about war and how brutal it is the first stanza of “Dulce Et Decorum Est” was very descriptive in telling us about it. “Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs And toward our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots But limped on, blood- shod. All went to lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.” Just reading that gave me the chills and immediately showed me how terrible war really is. Like Mr. Thomas said in class, they didn’t know what they were getting themselves into, and this shows the outcome.
D.
“Never such innocence, Never before or since, As changed itself to past Without a word - the men Leaving the gardens tidy, The thousands of marriages, Lasting a little while longer; Never such innocence again.” After reading this it got me angry. Everything was great until war. War that is so stupid and useless. Because of war it changed innocence people who believed in their government officials to question every little thing they do. Why can’t we have a government that we can actually trust?
B.
These stores remind me of a personal experience. When I was younger and I believed in Santa I was very innocent. After realizing that he isn’t real I started to question why my parents would lie to me for 10 years. I later found out that it is an awesome tradition that everyone should do to their children.
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Post by idelfonsoe16 on Feb 6, 2014 21:53:17 GMT -5
E. I will Compare the poems together in a little bit, but first MCMXIV is 1914, and Dulce Et Decorum Est is It is sweet and.... At the end of Dulce Et Decorum Est, the title is paired up with more latin words that go Pro patria mori. This combines to say It is Sweet and Glorious to die for the Fatherland. Both the poems seem to take place during WWI because there is a presence of green gas used that kills a soldier. MCMXIV seems like a time right before the war hits, and it is very peaceful but the peace starts to die down, while in Dulce Et Decorum Est soldiers are now fighting, and the horrors of war are reaping across the people fighting for the “Fatherland”.
I. I disagree with Ian’s B response. The soldier’s death was surely not sweet and fitting, but it was glorious for the Fatherland. I don’t know how dying in gas works as defending the Fatherland, so I cannot agree that a slow and painful death is fitting.
C. Why do the poems contradict each other, but take place nearly at the same time? Why is one in Latin but the other in Roman Numerals? Was there some sort of code that we didn’t know about at the time? How are we going to know what place is the soldier from? The Poems are somehow related because they both talk about a time period where “everything went wrong”. MCMXIV talks about a time where everything was perfect until….. And Dulce Et Decorum Est talks about the same time period after things went wrong.
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Post by raypark on Feb 7, 2014 0:48:13 GMT -5
E. The two poems seem to be about World War I in 1914, which MCMXIV stands for. The Latin phrase Dulce et Decorum est means that it is great and honorable to die for the motherland. These poems are descrbing the horrors of the war. You can tell that this is from World War I because of some of the weapons that are listed like the green gas, referring to the Chlorine and Mustard gas bombs that were used to kill soldiers.
I. I agree with Eric Ildefonso's interpet of the soldier's death. Altough it was definetely not sweet, it was defninetly honorable and glorious to see a soldier fighting and sacrificing himself for his or her country. The gas that is portrayed in the poem is to show how hard and tough it is to fight in this horrible war. It fits to show much more emphasis on how honorary we should be towards the dying soldier.
C. Both poems in general were pretty tricky to interpret completely. Although I got the part that they were fighting, it took me a while to figure out that this was World War I. But what I am confused about is the latin phrase Dulce et Decorum est. Is there another meaning to that phrase? Did the author of the poem want to say something else about this scene or maybe even something in a deeper level? i want to know what his true meanings were.
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Post by jotirmoykundu on Feb 7, 2014 3:57:45 GMT -5
I. I agree with Zaysoflys D response, "I feel like the Poem Dulce Et Decorum Est has a more deep and dark beginning compared to the poem MCMXIX. Although they have different tones, i noticed that they were each both comparing two things bring similar to one another. I think that these two pieces are about war, within the time periods that we are reading the Metamorphosis. I noticed in the Dulce Et Decorum Est poem that he mentioned how people were drowning in the green sea. Which caught to me as death. Also in MCMXIV it starts off with uneven lines. I thought this represented Chaos within the setting. People cannot make proper limes and none cares. When i looked up the Authors It says that they were both soldiers in the Army during WWI. This obviously would have a heavy influence on their deep and dark death poems. I like the lines in Dulce Et Decorum Est "In all my dreams before my helpless sight he plunges at me guttering choking drowning." It seems he might have some PTSD from the War and is envisioning people dying."
D. I like the third paragraph in the Dulce Et Decorum Est; It had so much meaning and emphasis to it, it was apalling and it felt like every word said was harder to write.
E. I feel that since mcmxiv was written in the 60s, the author was probably looking at a picture for inspiration and other such factors…
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Post by vazquezm16 on Feb 7, 2014 6:55:55 GMT -5
D. “And the countryside not caring: the place name all hazed over With flowering grasses, and fields Shadowing Domesday lines Under wheat’s restless silence; The differently-dressed servants With tiny rooms in huge houses, The dust behind limousines;” I really liked this quote from MCMXIV because it shows the stark difference of pre and post war. It talks about how everything seems hazed over and there is a restless silence. It really conveys this feeling that everything has changed now because of the war.
F. You can see a relationship between these two poems by their theme. Dulce Et Decorum Est is a sort of chaos and panicked feelingMCMXIV takes the opposite approach by conveying an uneasy calmness. Both of these are describing war but both make us feel different because of the language the use. MCMXIV tries to make you uncomfortable to make you wonder what is going on in the poem and Dulce Et Decorum Est makes people feel excited and are much better at making you realize that it is talking about a war.
C. I was confused at the language used in MCMXIV. It seems to say that the people are their most innocent at this time. I do not understand this because people usually say that innocence is lost in war. The author seems to show that everything is all right despite a war going on and then goes on to say that such innocence will never be had again. What does he mean by this? What in war is innocent? Maybe he is talking about the ignorance that people take when they hear about a war.
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Post by petergiglio on Feb 7, 2014 8:23:47 GMT -5
I. I was looking at another post about the poem called “Dulce Et Decorum Est,” after I read the poem and he wrote, “I loved the way he expressed how the prisoners were. I think he’s talking in perspective of the Jews in the concentration camp. The reason being is once they said gas; the first thought in mind was the concentration camp.” I don’t want to be rude, but I think this poem is about something completely different still relating to the war however. I believe the poem is actually about soldiers during the war. I understand the confusion though because the author writes, “Gas! Gas!” However, reading on it seems to me as if gas bombs were dropped around the soldiers and they are actually frantically trying to save their own lives.
A. Where is there a connection between these poems and after researching “MCMXIV” and learning it is a literary war memorial I am inclined to think the other poem “Dulce Et Decorum Est,” is also a memorial poem. I also got the sense that Owen’s poem was a sad memorial so maybe they are both sad literary war memorials.
C. I struggled getting on grip on the poem titled “MCMXIV” by Phillip Larkin. I don’t really understand what this poem is about or what it is trying to show. I researched the title and it was said to be a literary war memorial… Can anyone point on some key lines that might help me see this? Also is it just me or is this a sad poem?
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Post by rozzayhill007 on Mar 18, 2014 20:00:22 GMT -5
Jackson Hill
C. Something I am confused about is in the first stanza when it says, “ Those long uneven lines, Standing as patiently as if theu were stretched outside the oval or villa park, the crowds of hats, the sun on moustached archaic faces grinning as if it were all an August Bank Holiday lark.” What confuses me with this is, is this like a place where people go to sign up to be in the army or is it like an image of people who aren’t in the army just living their lives like there are no complications.
D. A line that I like from MCMXIV is, “ Without a word – the men leaving the gardens tidy, the thousands of marriages, lasting a little while longer: Never such innocence again.” I like these lines because it shows what these men would be leaving if they were to join the army and go fight for their country. It shows the lavish living that these men are accustomed to, and how they would be leaving this to go to something much worse and terrible.
I. I agree with what was said about the two poems being related with the fact that they are both talking about the image of war. And also that both poems show what men who enter the army are walking into and also what the men who enter the army are leaving.
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Post by mikeloseto on Mar 28, 2014 15:48:37 GMT -5
C. I was find of confused about the wording and language used in the poem. I mean, towards the end of the poem, I started to understand it but the wording was kind of rough and hard to work around for me. After I finished reading it, I read it again and then understood the what message the poem was trying to convey to the reader.
D. One quote that I found interesting was: “Never such innocence, Never before or since, As changed itself to past Without a word - the men Leaving the gardens tidy, The thousands of marriages, Lasting a little while longer; Never such innocence again.” As I was reading it, I picked up on the message it was trying to get across. It was basically saying that all was good and well until war came into the picture. It was a depressing truth because war is a man-made thing. Only man can go to war, only man will go to war. It's depressing because man is able to avoid so many problems but we choose to do the opposite and we just create problems for ourselves.
I. I agree with what Hank said about both poems being about war. It's pretty obvious they are.
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