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Post by Mr. Thomas on Nov 4, 2013 17:47:37 GMT -5
"The Beggar-King of Ithaca"
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Post by hessd16 on Nov 4, 2013 20:03:53 GMT -5
(Dakota Hess) D. This whole fight scene from beginning to end was awesome and gruesomely detailed. The part where Odysseus is shown in all glory with Athena beside him can be a clearly imagined scene.
I. The gruesome details of Odysseus beating the pulp out of the beggar was amazing as well as the insults and threats Odysseus sends the beggars way: “He’ll lop your nose and ears with his ruthless blade, he’ll rip your privates out by the roots, he will, and serve them up to his dogs to bolt down raw! “ and “and Irus hurled a fist at Odysseus’ right shoulder as he came through with a hook below the ear, pounding Irus’ neck, smashing the bones inside—Suddenly red blood
C. why does Odysseus play into this pit of anger? Why does he just not call off this beggar or send guards to get him? Is it because of his ego or because he is looking for a fight? Maybe a way to show the people of Ithaca that there king is back.
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Post by richteri16 on Nov 4, 2013 20:11:33 GMT -5
E. What is up with Irus? He just comes up to Odysseus and gets all up in his face. He thinks that Odysseus’s palace is his place to beg. He states that the suitors have a thing for him. He is their special beggar. He even threatens to haul off Odysseus to get him out of there. Odysseus doesn’t take this lightly though. He goes right back at him and spits sour insults at him. The two of them wind up having a fist fight over all of this. I feel that Irus is a jerk for being like this. He is on the bottom of the class level because he is a beggar. Then he comes in like he is a big man and starts bossing Odysseus around. In his current condition he doesn’t deserve to act like this. I think he deserved to get his ass kicked. F. I think that Antinous is a relationship manipulator. Clearly Irus is a regular beggar of the suitors. So then Antinous must have a decent relationship with him. However, when the fight breaks out he instigates it. If I even hardly knew someone I would not try to instigate a fight between him/her and another person. Also when he sees that the fight will happen soon he calls all of the suitors over. Now I think that some of the suitors are not horrendous people. At least some of them would feel bad for starting a fight yet they follow Antinous. I think that Antinous is the head honcho of the suitors and he is just manipulating them to follow him. I doubt he has any real friends. I. I agree with hessd16 on option D. This fight was intense and extremely detailed. I felt like I was there.
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Post by petergiglio on Nov 4, 2013 20:38:27 GMT -5
C. i feel like here is another great example where Odysseus' ego or "macho manliness" comes into play and just him trying to show he is or can do something more than everyone else and like always, why not just go with the strategic decision instead of just looking for a fight. I think this is a way just for him to show why he is king and why he wasnt defeated in the Trojan war to make him seem like he is unstoppable to all the people, in way now that i think of it it seems pretty smart to put fear in the suitors. E. I dont get Irus, he really bothers me becuase he thinks that he has a right to be in Oddysseus' palace and just beg there and syas hes in with the suitor and he is their speacial beggar of some sort. What i kind of find hilarious is that he threatens to kick odysseus out and is being a real jerk and deserves nothing of what he has and needs a real attitude adjustment because he has no respect for odysseus and thinks he has the right to speak freely with him and boss him around in a sense which is quite irritating. I, Ia agree with richteri16 that antinous is a real relationship manipulator and antinous must have a decent realtionship witch irus but instigates when the fight breaks out
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Post by michaelgenco on Nov 4, 2013 22:21:16 GMT -5
D. A quote that I really enjoyed was this: “Out of your mind?What damage have I done you? What have I said? I don’t grudge you anything, not if the next man up and gives you plenty. This doorsill is big enough for the both of us- you’ve got no call to grudge me what’s not yours. You’re another vagrant, just like me, I’d say, and it lies with the gods to make us rich or poor. So, keep your fists to yourself, don’t press your luck, don’t rile me, and buy myself some peace and quite for tomorrow. I doubt you’ll ever come lumbering back again to the halls of Laertes’ royal son Odysseus.” I enjoy this quote so much because Odysseus is telling Arnaeus to basically shut up. Odysseus later says that after I take over the house again I am not seeing your face around. It feels good when the bad guy loses and that is what happened in this scene.
E. “Now along came this tramp, this public nuisance who used to scrounge a living round the streets of Ithaca- notorious for his belly, a ravenous, bottomless pit for food and drink, but he had no pith, no brawn, despite the looming hulk that met your eyes. Arnaeus was his name, so his worthy mother called him at birth, but all the young men called him Irus for short because he’d hustle messages at any beck and call.” After reading this I started to laugh because Arnaeus is considered a loser who only is looked worthy by his mom.
C. Why is Arnaeus so cruel, it makes no sense at all.
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Post by jotirmoykundu on Nov 5, 2013 4:18:56 GMT -5
C.In this part of the book, I didn’t understand a couple things. The first thing I am confused on is what is going on page 356 where it explains in detail describing what Telemachus is doing. "Spear in hand, Telemachus strode on through the hall and out, and a pair of sleek hounds went trotting at his heels. Athena started a splendor on the prince so the people all started in wonder as he came forward. The panache suitors clustered, milling around him, welcome words on their lips, and murder in their hearts. But he have them a wide birth as they came crowding in and there where Mentor sat, Antiphus, Halitherses too—his father’s loyal friends from days gone by.” I wasn’t sure exactly what this line means
D. My favorite line is: “Now from her chamber came discreet Penelope, bursting into tears as she flung her arms around her darling son and kissed his face and kissed his shining eyes and sobbed..” This line I really enjoyed because Telemachus and his mother are finally reunited and now Penelope hasn’t lost her entire family, and now she at least has her son back.
I. I agree with hessd16. This fight was heated, intense, and extremely detailed. The detailed description made me feel like I was right there witnessing everything happening and it had me shook, almost getting goose bumps!
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Post by vazquezm16 on Nov 5, 2013 6:13:06 GMT -5
C. I still don’t really understand why Amaeus fought Odysseus for apparently no reason. Maybe he saw Odysseus as a threat to his begging. I think he is comparable to the crazy homeless guy you find on the street. D. I liked the quote form Telemachus on page 389 trying to calm the suitors down after they get angry with Odysseus. “Fools, you’re out of your minds! No hiding it, food and wine have gone to your head. Some god has got your blood up. Come, now you’ve eaten well go home to bed-when the spirit moves, that is. I, for one, I’ll drive no guest away.” I think this is another example of Odysseus ego almost messing things up for Odysseus and Telemachus. Odysseus makes a long speech to the suitors and they get angry with him. They start complaining about how all this trouble only started when this new beggar showed up. I think Telemachus did a good job of downplaying the situation to the suitors and taking their minds off of Odysseus’ insults. I. I agree with petergiglio about Odysseus’ ego coming into play again. This almost reminds of when the young Phaecians challenged Odysseus so he got angry and destroyed them in the contest. I think that Odysseus has a pretty big ego and when he is insulted he needs to try and re-establish himself as the number one. While I think having an ego if fine I think Odysseus was a little out of place beating up the other beggar considering he had enhancements from Athena and the other beggar did not.
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Post by hankmichels on Nov 5, 2013 7:09:24 GMT -5
C. Who’s idea was it to put torches up in the palace? It s just a dumb idea. Apparently someone decided that suitors should be able to see where they are going before they run into a wall. And it’s the mades job to put up the torches. I say that they keep it dark so the suitors can smack into the walls an break their noses. Who cares about the suitors?. I have a sneaking suspicion that the mades are traitors and some of them have fallen in love with the suitors so they will do what ever they say. Remember the suitors probably hardly care about Penelope. They probably just want to be the king of Ithaca. So they could fall in love with one of the mades, they just don’t care. But putting up torches is just ridiculous. That almost proves that they like the suitors more than they respect Ithaca. I hope in the end the mades die too
E. Who the heck is Iros and what is he doing here? He is according to him the official beggar of Ithaca. And he states that Ithaca is not big enough for two beggars. What?! Hes a beggar practically a pest in ways. He should be lucky to be at Ithaca. He shouldn’t be all like “Ithaca is my town”. I cant believe someone like him was allowed into Ithaca in the first place by Odysseus. So it was good when Odysseus beat him up.
A. The suitors remind me of the protesters that were on wall street.
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Post by zaysofly on Nov 5, 2013 17:40:54 GMT -5
D: I thought it was really funny when Arnaeus challenged Odysseus in disguise as an old man. Then Athena helps Odysseus out by making him bigger and stronger. Then all of a sudden he didn’t want to fight him but he had to because the crowd had already riled the whole scene up. In my personal opinion I think Odysseus should have killed that suitor just for the same old reasons. He’s living in your house and he’s the one who challenged you. His death should be to his demise. Although in the end one man does give Odysseus food, Amphinomus, gets saved. I guess maybe there plan was a good plan after all because Amphinomus was a good egg inside. Even after Odysseus tells Amphinomus that he will be killed later on if he stays, Amphinomus doesn’t leave. I also thought it was really funny when Eurymachus throws a stool at Odysseus. Then Telemachus comes out of nowhere and stops the riot. It’s kind of like oh where were you for the past 20 years? Now you want to act.
C: Why does Athena have to make Penelope more beautiful in order to get the suitors attention? The only reason the suitors are there is so that they can marry her, so I’m pretty sure that she is pleasing enough o the eye. I also predict that this will make Odysseus later on love Penelope, or be more dramatic over seeing her later on when they finally meet.
I: I agree with hessd16 about the fight. As I was reading, my jaw couldn’t stay closed. There was a lot of descriptive detail.
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Post by mikeloseto on Nov 5, 2013 18:07:50 GMT -5
C. I was confused as to who's idea it was to put torches in the palace. It just seemed kind of dumb. The fact that someone was making sure the suitors were "comfortable" is weird. I mean, the suitors are a tyrannous people and I don't think they should receive any special treatment. Similar to Hank's theory, I too believe that some maids are falling in love with the suitors and they are trying to make them comfortable or whatever. The suitors are con artists so I think they're taking advantage of the maids, the most vulnerable people, just to take over as king of Ithaca.
G. If I were one of the maids, I would've not interacted with the suitors. I would've tried to stay as far away as possible. They mean nothing but trouble and I wouldn't want to get involved with them.
I. I agree with Dakota about the battle between Odysseus and the beggar. The details were very defined and personified and made the story very interesting.
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Post by stephanoscocoves on Nov 5, 2013 20:47:23 GMT -5
C.Why does Athena change the appearance of Penelope, making her more beautiful to attract the attentions of the suitors. I'm sure the suitors were already very much in her business and they didn't need an extra push of beauty to make them realize her. For sakes that was the only reason they were there so they could get to the kingdom and she was the only thing in their way. D. I liked the fighting scene. When i read it, i imagined blood and gore, which I i thought fit the book very well seeing the movie 300 that is what i expected this book to be like. That is how I thought the Greeks were going to be like. I could perfectly picture Odysseus and Athena standing atop a bunch of bodies standing tall and proud. I. I agree with hankmichels how does Iros even say there arent enough room for two beggars.
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Post by Cameron Smith on Nov 5, 2013 22:03:34 GMT -5
E. What has gotten into Irus? He just comes up to Odysseus and gets all up in his face. He thinks that Odysseus’s palace is his place to beg. He states that the suitors have a thing for him. He is their special beggar. He even threatens to haul off Odysseus to get him out of there. Odysseus doesn’t take this lightly though. He goes right back at him and spits sour insults at him. The two of them wind up having a fist fight over all of this. I feel that Irus is a jerk for being like this but I can understand why. He is on the bottom class level is a beggar. Then he comes in like he is a tough guy and starts bossing Odysseus around. In his current condition he shouldn’t act like this. Although I can understand where he is getting this sense of power from- as he Irus said he is their “special beggar” and can feel like his “begging spot” is threatened. He is only trying to keep the only thing that is keeping him fed and in a shelter. I. I agree with hessd16 on his opinion D. This fight was intense and extremely detailed. I felt like I was there watching it first-hand. D. My favorite line from this book is: “Now from her chamber came discreet Penelope, bursting into tears as she flung her arms around her darling son and kissed his face and kissed his shining eyes and sobbed.” This line I really enjoyed because Telemachus and his mother are finally reunited and now Penelope hasn’t lost her entire family, and now she at least has her son back. It also shows the huge amount of care she has for her son and that she must be glad she doesn’t have to face the suitors alone.
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Post by bakerm16 on Nov 13, 2013 18:36:01 GMT -5
C. I was confused as to why Athena changed the appearance of Penelope. In the text it says Athena makes Penelope more attractive so the suitors would long to marry her even more. Is she trying ti get Odysseus jealous or something? Or is this Athena helping out in her usual weird way? What I think is that in doing this Odysseus will try even harder to get to her and realize that she is still as pretty as she was 20 years ago. 20 years is obviously a lot and i think that Athena is trying to save Penelope from appearing not as attractive as Odysseus remembers.
E. I actually like Athena's character in this book. She helps Odysseus out a lot. The first thing she does to help him is make him bigger and stronger. The second thing that she does is make Penelope appear more pretty. I understood the first thing that she did, but I did not understand until later how making Penelope appear extremely gorgeous. It attracts the suitors even more and gets Odysseus' attention he will try harder to reach Penelope because he has even more to look forward to in going home.
I. I agree with hessd16 the fight scene was very exciting I liked the detail in this section. I could actually visualize the fight scene thats how much detail it contained.
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