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Post by Mr. Thomas on Oct 28, 2013 10:17:42 GMT -5
Post responses here.
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Post by hankmichels on Oct 28, 2013 16:55:06 GMT -5
E. I feel like Telemachus is right about the suitors. They have no chance against them. Its only Odysseus Telemachus and possibly that swine dude. And now I hear there are over a hundred suitors plus servants who are possibly un loyal. They will probably get slaughtered. Of course they wont kill odysseus because he is the main character. So I am guessing that Odysseus will either “Harness the Power of the Gods” Or “He is such a fearsome warrior that he cant be beat.” Either way Odysseus is most definitely going to win in the end because he is the main character.
B. This is probably one of the most important book in the entire Odyssey. It’s the big set up for the epic conclusion. Telemachus finally comes home, so no all the characters are at ithica for the finale. Odysseus reveals himself to Telemachus and they now have begun planning. The suitors are growing restless and they are ready for a conclusion. And I believe that slowly, Penelope is starting to loose it. Thinks need to rap up and this chapter is kicking that off in a great way.
H. Telemachus sits inside the hut looking somewhat bored as he plays with some food on his plate. The beggar odysseus slowly creeps outside torward Athena who stand off to the side in some deep grass. The hut is made mostly out out of wood and straw and rises ten feet off the ground. Below the hut is the sheep pen and the dining table where Telemachus currently sits.
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Post by idelfonsoe16 on Oct 28, 2013 17:53:53 GMT -5
C. How come Telemachus didn’t mistake Odysseus as a Suitor? How come he allows all these random people into his house? Is this part of the hospitality code? What if Odysseus was not Odysseus, and an assassin? Telemachus really doesn’t care who it is, and he is a huge coward. If Odysseus is a battle-hardened veteran, how come Telemachus is a chicken? I’m guessing Odysseus really didn’t teach him anything before he left for Troy. B. I think this text is significant because this shows us another part of Odysseus’ tactical plans come into effect. This also shows us what happens when Telemachus finally sees and meets Odysseus after twenty years. This shows the reader that Odysseus’ task is almost complete. I only wonder if Odysseus might have hallucinations of everything that has happened to him once everything is normal. That is my only concern about post Odyssey. I. I agree with hankmichels with the suitor situation. I only thought there would be about five to ten suitors. After Telemachus’ speech, there are over FIFTY!!!! How can Odysseus and Telemachus alone fight off fifty men!? Odysseus seems like he can wipe these guys out in a heartbeat, especially since he wounded Polyphemus, endured the wrath of Poseidon and Zeus alike, endured Calypso’s lust, and a trip to the underworld. I picture Odysseus leaving an entire pool of the suitors’ blood all over the floor after this encounter. There is no way, in any possible way, that this will be a clean showdown.
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Post by rozzayhill007 on Oct 28, 2013 18:15:50 GMT -5
Jackson Hill
C. I am confused on a big chunk of this book but mainly on page 340. It says, “So Odysseus, moving back, sat down once more, and now for the prince the swineherd strewed a bundle of fresh green brushwood, topped it off with sheepskin and there the true son of Odysseus took his place. Eumaeus set before them platters of roast meat left from the meal he’d had the day before; he promptly served them bread, heaped in baskets, mixed their hearty wine in a wooden bowl and then sat down himself to face the king. They reached for the good things that lay at hand, and when they’d put aside desire for food and drink Telemachus asked his loyal serving-man at last, ‘Old friend, where does this stranger come from? Why did the sailors land him here in Ithaca? Who did they say they are? I hardly think he came this way on foot.” I don’t really understand the jist of what is happening here.
D. Some lines that I found interesting were, “ You answered him, Eumaeus, loyal swineherd, ‘ Here my boy, I’ll tell you the whole true story, He hails from Crete’s broad land, he’s proud to say, but he claims he’s drifted round through countless towns of men, roaming the earth … and so god’s spun out his fate. He just now broke away from some Thesprotian ship and came to my farm. I’ll put him in your hands, you tend to him as you like. He counts on you, he says, for care and shelter.” I like this quote because it is very descriptive for one and it kind of relates to the situation with what some people deal with today, with people not caring for them and basically giving them away.
I. I agree with both Eric and Hank about the situation they speak about. How are two people going to fight against 50 men, even thinking that the two men could win is outrageous.
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Post by michaelgenco on Oct 28, 2013 19:49:03 GMT -5
C. One quote that I was very confused with was this: “ Shelter? Oh Eurmaeus,” Telemachus replied, “That word of yours, it cuts me to the quick! How can I lend the stranger refuge in my house? I’m young myself. I can hardly trust my hands to fight off any man who rises up against me.” I am confused because Telemachus says that he cannot defend himself when he lets a criminal that just killed someone on his ship that he had no idea who he was. Also, I was confused why Telemachus was so scared of a beggar Odysseus was being. Another quote that I didn’t understand was this: “He fathered me, he left me behind at home, and from me he got no joy. So now our house is plagued by swarms of enemies.” Why does Telemachus think that is was his fault for the absence of Odysseus? Also, why does he say me he got no joy? Odysseus wasn’t there for his childhood because he was fighting a war, so how can he have no joy in him? How could the suitors talk about killing Telemachus infront of Penelope? How can you do that without feeling disgust in yourself?
D. A quote that I enjoyed was this: “Then let some foreigner lop my head off if I failed to march right into Odysseus’ royal halls and kill them all. And what if I went down, crushed by their numbers-I , fighting alone? I’d rather die, cut down in my own house than have to look on at their outrage day by day.” I loved this quote because its so motivational. After reading this I want to get up from my computer and run a marathon.
I. I agree with hankmichaels, I think Telemachus is right about they have no chance fighting so many men.
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Post by petergiglio on Oct 28, 2013 19:49:31 GMT -5
C. To be honest, Telemachus' and Odysseus' plan seems to be a little far fetched if you ask me because its only two of them when there is a whole bunch of suitors and they are clearly out numbered but i guess Telemechus is just like his father and is arrogant and self assured that this plan is going to work but i mean Odysseus has survived far worse so him slaying all the suitors with his sons help seems like light work for him and he doesnt really seem to be stressed at all when im reading it. Plus it kind of bothered me that Emaeus went to go tell Penelope about her sons return and not her actual son, i dont know i just felt like it would have been better that way.
G. if i were Odyssues i would kind of feel like im at war again or at that same town i wiped out right after i had left the war because i would need to use the same types of war tactics i wouldve used at war that i am using now and the same types of strategy. Ultimately, i guess you could say that Odysseus is actually at war with the suitors except this war is far less popular and vast. Plus it would take much less time. But also if i were Odysseus i would be extremely excited that i get to see my son whom i havent seen for about 25 years which is a big up and plus he is going to see his wife again.
I. i agree with hank that this is the most important boom of the poem, well this one along with the ones where he takes down the suitors and wins back his land and resumes his place on the throne.
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Post by bakerm16 on Oct 28, 2013 19:58:53 GMT -5
I. I agree with eric and hank. Just the thought of old man Odysseus and his coward of a son taking on so many suitors by themselves is somewhat outrageous. First of all its funny just thinking about two men seriously thinking they can take on 50. But what is even more interesting along with the fact that they think they can go against 50 men is the condition of the two men. Lets face it, odysseus is old. He has been away from home for 20 years and hasn't been in war for or serious man to man battle in 20 years as well. What makes him think he can just pick it back up again. Its like if you learn how to play a sport then you stop playing then expect to still be good at it after the time you haven't played. No you can not do that. Telemachus on the other hand is slightly more fit for combat only because of his age. However Telemachus is a coward he would never be able to last in a fight against 50 suitors.
C. My only question is why Telemachus is so hospitable to Odysseus. Even though It is his father at the time he was unaware that Odysseus was Odysseus. Odysseus could honestly have been anyone for all Telemachus knows. I think the hospitality shown in Ithaca is just a way they live by. Where they assume that whoever they invite into their house would do no harm to them. We see this trait in Eumaeus as well in letting Odysseus stay in his hut. All these gestures are very nice but very peculiar. Why are you so open to strangers entering your house?
G. If i were Odysseus at this point in the story I would feel nervous a little because I haven't been in battle in over 20 years and I am noticeably out manned.
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Post by johnaviles on Oct 28, 2013 20:01:03 GMT -5
B. This reading definitely changes the story entirely and is essential for the text to have. It changes the mood dramatically for a couple of reasons. There is a feeling of excitement when Odysseus and Telemachus are finally reunited after 20 years (210-220). When together they try to formulate a plot to kill the suitors and take back their palace there is a feeling of suspense (320-350).
E. I was a little bit upset how Telemachus second guesses that Odysseus is actually is father. I get that 20 years has passed I probably would’ve had the same reaction but I thought he was doing it out of stubbornness and didn’t want to believe Odysseus, his father has actually returned which is why I was upset. Telemachus originally hugs and weeps on Odysseus but second guesses if it’s actually Odysseus and thinks he’s a god but Odysseus replies, “No, I am not a god.” “Why confused me with one who never dies? No, I am your father-the Odysseus you wept for all your days.”
F. Clearly Odysseus and his son have a very tight relationship. You can tell because when they reunite the hug so tight and weep for a long period of time and their relationship seems very sincere. “Odysseus say down again, and Telemachus threw his arms around his great father, sobbing uncountrollably as the deep desire for tears welled up in both. They cried out, shrilling cries pulsing sharper than birds of prey, eagles-”
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Post by richteri16 on Oct 28, 2013 20:01:45 GMT -5
C. I am confused on why Telemachus did not really think on whether or not Odysseus was another suitor. He could have been some kind of assassin too. The suitors did have men out looking to kill Telemachus anyway. So why was he so quick to accept him? He was skeptical at first but Odysseus quickly swayed him. I don’t think he should be so easy to be convinced. Odysseus could have been some killer on a mission for his head for all he knew. Now Odysseus wants to go kill the suitors with Telemachus. Well according to all of this I would think twice about taking him along. He could freak out and run off. Or he could fall into a trap and die or be killed by a suitor. D. I really like lines 177-200. Homer’s depiction of Athena arriving is really awesome. She is coming in her normal form so her whole divinity is radiating off of her. Homer describes her as a beautiful woman who is very tall. The dogs in the ward knew immediately who she was. They scurried off and hid and whimpered in fear. You can almost see the light and god like appearance that she presents. Then when she restores Odysseus to his original form Homer perfectly describes Odysseus. He speaks of his dark tan and firm jaw and young physique. I. I agree with hankmichels on option E. This is clearly not going to be an easy fight. I don’t see Odysseus or Telemachus coming out of it alive unless they get backup. The whole harness the power of the Gods just seems like too much for even this story. Even though there is much mythology in this story I think that this would just be Homer’s easy way out of a tight point in the plot.
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Post by hessd16 on Oct 28, 2013 21:23:17 GMT -5
(Dakota Hess)
i.i agree with rozzay007 on “I am confused on a big chunk of this book but mainly on page 340. It says, “So Odysseus, moving back, sat down once more, and now for the prince the swineherd strewed a bundle of fresh green brushwood, topped it off with sheepskin and there the true son of Odysseus took his place. Eumaeus set before them platters of roast meat left from the meal he’d had the day before; he promptly served them bread, heaped in baskets, mixed their hearty wine in a wooden bowl and then sat down himself to face the king. They reached for the good things that lay at hand, and when they’d put aside desire for food and drink Telemachus asked his loyal serving-man at last, ‘Old friend, where does this stranger come from? Why did the sailors land him here in Ithaca? Who did they say they are? I hardly think he came this way on foot.” I don’t really understand the jist of what is happening here” ^ I understand that Telemachus is skeptical about this new visitor. But, the middle of this quote gets kind of sketchy. I’m not sure if they are preparing a meal or something else. C. My questions is to why Odysseus keeps secret that he is himself. He gives all these little hints such as telling Telemachus what he would do if he “was Odysseus”. He tells him passionately about killing of the suitors. Why does he drop these hints? D. I very much liked how Odysseus described what he would do to the suitors. These men were trying to me home wreckers essentially and did not really love Penelope. They just want power and money.
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Post by stephanoscocoves on Oct 28, 2013 21:27:01 GMT -5
C. I confused on the hospitality of Telemachus between him and odysseus. I understand it is a Greek thing to be hospitable but, he has never even met the guy. I honestly think he is just asking for trouble. How does he not think that he could be a suitor trying to kill him so they can over throw the thrown. It just doesn't make sense.
D. I really liked the quote, “Then let some foreigner lop my head off if I failed to march right into Odysseus’ royal halls and kill them all. And what if I went down, crushed by their numbers-I , fighting alone? I’d rather die, cut down in my own house than have to look on at their outrage day by day.”
I. I agree with @hankmichaels on option E. This fight is obviously not going to be an easy one. The plan isn't very smart and are destined to die.
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Post by mikeloseto on Oct 28, 2013 22:17:52 GMT -5
C. I was confused as to why Telemachus was so comfortable around Odysseus. I mean, there were many suitors out to kill Telemachus but he doesn't seem to see Odysseus as one of these suitor bounty hunters. I feel like he should have been more hesitant and cautious of staying around Odysseus. For all Telemachus knows, Odysseus could be trying to kill him. The fact that Telemachus is so easily convinced that Odysseus can be trusted and that Telemachus feels that he can be around Odysseus with no anxiety is kind of frightening. It is especially frightening if people see this quality about Telemachus and know that they can deceive him pretty easily. Not a smart move on Telemachus' part.
G. If I were Telemachus in the situation I talked about in my response to letter C, I would be very, very worried about trusting or going near Odysseus for any length of time. I would try to keep my distance and stay on my toes in case Odysseus tries to pull anything suspicious or alarming.
I. I agree with what Hank was saying about the fight Odysseus and his men are about to take a part in. He gets down the root of almost every story ever written; the main character lives most of the time. Even though this fight is in favor of Odysseus' opposition, stories always let the main character live. I thought this analysis by Hank was funny as well as true.
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Post by jotirmoykundu on Oct 29, 2013 1:09:01 GMT -5
C. In this section, I was confused with this quote: “ Shelter? Oh Eurmaeus,” Telemachus replied, “That word of yours, it cuts me to the quick! How can I lend the stranger refuge in my house? I’m young myself. I can hardly trust my hands to fight off any man who rises up against me.” I don’t understand why Telemachus is so scared of Odysseus being a beggar and I don’t understand why he wouldn’t be able to hold his ground if he had to face the person who he just released that killed someone on his ship. The other quote I had trouble understanding was: “He fathered me, he left me behind at home, and from me he got no joy. So now our house is plagued by swarms of enemies.” Why does he blame Odysseus’ leaving on himself? I also didn’t understand how the suitors have the audacity about talking about killing Telemachus right infront of Penelope? How can you do that without feeling disgust in yourself?
D. It this part of the book, I loved how much of a man Odysseus is. He talks about what he’d do to the suitors because essentially they were just being home wreckers.
I. I agree with what Hank. He gets to the point with every story and a trend I noticed is the main character lives most of the time. I found it really funny because even though it seems that the story is against Odysseus living, they are not going to kill him off.
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Post by Michael Vazquez on Oct 29, 2013 10:25:24 GMT -5
C. I was confused as why the suitors would talk about killing Telemachus inside his own house. I do think that this is a good example of the suitors already claiming everything as their own. I do think it was not the smartest idea to talk about killing someone while in his house. Telemachus could have walked in at any moment and Penelope overheard and she might do something with this information. D. I like Telemachus’ mini speech to his father claiming that he is no longer a child and that he is ready to go to battle for Odysseus. “Soon enough, father you’ll sense the courage inside me, that I know-I’m hardly a flighty. Weak-willed boy these days.” I think that this quote shows that Telemachus has changed in the long period of time that Odysseus has been gone and maybe Odysseus does not know how to accept that yet. The last time he saw his son his sons was not a great warrior ready to go kill people. E. In lines 342-355 Telemachus talks to Odysseus about how used to be a weak willed, flighty boy and that he has now changed for the better. Right after telling Odysseus this he goes on to say that he thinks Odysseus’ plan is bad because he thinks it will waste time. I think, while Telemachus may be a more courageous person since Odysseus last saw him he may be overconfident in himself. Odysseus is after all a mighty tactician according to the book, so why not let him plan the attack? This would seem the better plan of action considering that Odysseus has had previous experience in war unlike Telemachus. I think Telemachus may be a little too eager to get after the suitors and prove himself to his father.
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Post by Ray Park on Nov 3, 2013 22:20:14 GMT -5
D. I like this book for many reasons. Firstly, I really enjoyed the father and son moment in Eurymaeus's house. Odysseus all of a sudden turns into a strong big warrior from an old fragile man in front of Telemachus and they have a great moment together. I really like this because there is finally an ending and finally a piece of time where they actually see each other. The fact that the omen of the hawk killing the dove showed up really meant something big. I also really like the fact that Odysseus is back home and nobody can do a thing about it.
C. I was a little confused about the plans of the suitors. After one stupid sailsman of Telemachus's ship goes to the palace and yells that Telemachus is back, they start to conjure a plan to do something against Telemachus. The plans didn't make sense to me.
I. I agree with Jot in that Odysseus is like the great man of his age.
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