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Post by Mr. Thomas on Oct 23, 2013 12:36:52 GMT -5
Post responses here.
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Post by bakerm16 on Oct 26, 2013 18:04:35 GMT -5
D. I like Odysseus' use of reverse psychology in this section when he tells Eumaeus about how he is going to leave his hut that morning but Eumaeus refuses to let him leave. On lines 355-367 " Thanks to hermes the guide, who gives all work of our hands the grace and the fame that it deserves, no one alive can match me at household hold chores: building a fire, splitting kindling neatly, carving, roasting meat and pouring rounds of wine... anything menials do to serve their noble masters." "God's sake, my friend!" You broke in now, Eumaeus, loyal swineherd, deeply troubled. "What's got into your head, what crazy plan? You must be hell bent on destruction , on the spot, if you're keen to mingle with that mob of suitors -- their pride and violence hit the iron skies! They're a far cry from you, the men who do their bidding.
C. My only question in this part is where and when in the 20 Years that Odysseus has been gone has Telemachus developed these great leadership skills. He has really developed leadership skills that are very similar to his father in that he is leading many people and these people trust his ideas and his judgement for their safety. One thing I found interesting was how Telemachus went from Pylos to Ithaca with such ease. Odysseus took forever to get to Ithaca and Telemachus did it with ease. Then again, Telemachus did not have Poseidon's wrath and rage to deal with on his journey home. But still, Odysseus did pass Ithaca many times on his way hime along with losing many people.
H. I can envision Eumaeus' hut. I see its dimensions as 15 x 15 x 10 made of wool and sticks. I envision Odysseus under a blanket with Eumaeus under the hut in warmth.
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Post by richteri16 on Oct 27, 2013 14:03:01 GMT -5
C. Lines 286-314 are odd to me. Why is Telemachus allowing some stranger onto his boat? Who knows who he is lets just let him on board. That is not a good idea to me. Also Theoclymenus even said that he killed someone in his native land. Now he is on the run from those who want him dead from home. First, it is bad to have a murder around. He could easily snap and kill you too! Second, this man is on the run from people who want him dead. If they found that Telemachus is keeping him safe then they could easily try to kill him too. Taking this guy in is not a good idea. E. Lines 486-507 are weird and shocking to me. Apparently Eumaeus’s mother wanted to return to her homeland with a fleet of ships that docked at her island. So he decided to leave he husband behind and take herself and her son who was Eumaeus with her. At the time he was only a small toddler. She went on to say that the sailors could even sell him later on if they wanted to. They would probably get a good price for him. What kind of woman just runs away from he home and husband like that? Also, why would she willingly give up her little son fro slavery? I. I like bakerm16’s response to option D. Odysseus uses his cunning and good use of words to test Eumaeus. Will he let him stay? Also, can he get some more information on the situation going on at home?
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Post by petergiglio on Oct 27, 2013 14:52:25 GMT -5
C. Sometimes it was a little hard to understand where the points of view were coming from and who was talking. I felt like i got confused between Emaeus and Odysseus speaking because since Odysseus is in disguise and cant say he is who he really is i seem to get confused as to whos talking sometimes. Also i dont really see a point yet in the character that Telemachus meets who killed one of his men back at his home and he is a fugitive. Like is he just showing his sense of hospitality and just plain being nice or does he play a bigger role in the story later on ?
D. I find it interesting on lines 419-427 where the swineherd says that he doesnt really hear from Penelope anymore because of the suitors but Odysseus' mom he has heard from and how he misses her dearly ever since she had died. I find this interesting because i think it shows the type of character that Penelope is and how what the suitors are doing are really putting a toll on her and changing her as a person and why she is almost about to crack and give in.
H. I envision this as kind of one big scene that is moving back and forth between the the scenario going on with Telemachus and then the one over at the swineherds place kind of giving information from both what is happening with Odysseus and Telemachus so we see both point of views and not really left in the dark on anything. I see this short part as the rising action of what is to come later in the book, like this is just the beginning of the story and Odysseus reaching home was only part of the intro.
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Post by mikeloseto on Oct 27, 2013 17:47:47 GMT -5
C. Similar to what Ian said about 286-314, I was also confused as to why Telemachus allows some absolute stranger on to his boat. The Odyssey is already a story of violence and betrayal so the fact that Telemachus lets this stranger on his boat is plain odd. Was Telemachus thinking about the potential consequences of doing this? Did he even understand what he was doing? I'm not sure what Telemachus was thinking but it wasn't a smart move on his part.
G. If I were Telemachus, I would have rode off on my ship when the stranger asked me for passage on my boat. I don't even know if I would have said "yes" or "no." I think I would have sailed off in fear of being attacked or ransacked.
I. I also agree with what Baker was saying about how Odysseus twists his words in a way that deceives Eumaeus but not in a way that is malicious. It is interesting how Odysseus talks in this part and how cunning he is. He can think on his toes when he needs and he is able to place all of his words perfectly.
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Post by johnaviles on Oct 27, 2013 18:07:46 GMT -5
C. I was confused as to why Odysseus wants to test the limit of the swineherd’s hospitality with a flase gesture that he is going to leave and work for the suitors. It’s not like the swineherd is kicking Odysseus out or thinks of kicking him out it actually seems like he enjoys Odysseus’ company. “Odysseus spoke up, eager to test the swineherd, see if he’d stretch out his warm welcome now, invite him to stay on in the farmstead here or send him off to town.
D. “The prince strode out briskly, legs speeding him on till he reached the farm where his great droves of pigs crowded their pens and the loyal swineherd slept beside them, always the man to serve his masters well.” I enjoyed this line because Telemachus is finally about to reach the swineherd’s house where Odysseus is currently staying and maybe Odysseus will be so over-joyed that he reveals his true identity. There are several possibilities which make it exciting.
E. I became really hopeful when another omen occurs, “a hawks, Apollo’s wind-swift herald tight in his claws a struggling dove and he ripped its feathers out and they drifted to earth between the ship and the young prince himself. This made me hopeful because at that point in the story I had a feeling Telemachus’ journey was going to go wrong and he might not would’ve made it back to Ithaca and that omen gave me hope that he would.
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Post by zaysofly on Oct 27, 2013 19:18:21 GMT -5
D: I thought it was funny how Odysseus kind of passively manipulates Eumaeus. He tells Eumaeus that he has to get ready to leave and creates a devious plan to try and get Eumaeus to let him stay. And of course he would let him stay, a crazy old, poor man planning to go out to sail? That doesn’t even sound safe, which is probably why he doesn’t allow him to leave, he probably would have died out there.
C: I wonder how Telemachus is going to react when he finally sees his father? I wonder if he will be overjoyed, or mad or even plan on trying to kill him like Achilles warned him. Also, maybe his wife might even kill him, it’s pretty much anything goes from know until they finally rejoice together. Also, has Telemachus mentored anyone else throughout the time that Odysseus has been gone? Like has anyone taken Telemachus in to teach him the ways to lead and to be a proper man? Because he seems to be doing quite well on his own, but not as good as Odysseus. Also, why is a hawk carrying a dove in its talons a good omen that Telemachus will prosper? It seems kind of sad that a hawk just murdered such a precious bird. To me it seems like the opposite. It seems like something good will be taken away or something good will not prosper.
G: If I were Odysseus I would be dying to see my son. I haven’t seen him in 20 years, we have a lot of catching up to do and a lot of missed birthdays.
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Post by michaelgenco on Oct 27, 2013 19:57:35 GMT -5
C. I was confused when Telemachus was so open to telling Theoclymenus about himself. If a stranger went up to you and asked you for your name and other personal questions I would run. Why his Telemachus so confident that this man wouldn’t do anything to him? After that Telemachus invites him on his boat. You only known this guy for 30 seconds and now you are inviting him on your boat because he is in a similar situation as you? Why would he want to responsibility of a criminal? I am very confused why Penelope never says anything about Odysseus’ mother. Does she not want to talk about it or is she so caught up with the suitors? Why does Apollo and Artemis come with their silver bow to shoot all of the old men with gentle arrows?
D. A quote that I enjoyed was this: “Thanks to Hermes the guide, who gives all work of our hands the grace and fame that it deserves, no one alive can match me at household chores: Building a good fire, splitting kindling neatly, carving, roasting meat and pouring rounds of wine.... anything menials do to serve their noble masters.” I thought that this quote was funny because Odysseus is saying the stuff that anyone can do. He is saying that he is useless.
E. “Laertes is still alive, but night and day he prays to Zeus, waiting there in his house, for the life breath to slip away and leave his body.” After reading this quote I felt great sympathy for both Odysseus, for hearing that his father wants to die, and his father because he is dying from a broken heart
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Post by stephanoscocoves on Oct 27, 2013 21:13:34 GMT -5
C. I was confused when Odysseus purposefully tells Eumaues that in the morning he will purposefully will leave. I understand people want to be good guests and tell them that they dont have to go. But Odysseus says it in a way where he is asking to leave. I thought his plan was going to backfire on him and Eumaues was going to let him go. I thought it was very dumb to risk something that you already have.
E. I felt bad when Eumaus was telling his life story. Imagine if you were the son of a king and was kidnapped. You would lose everything, and you wouldn't be used to living as a slave. Just like in this world. Being the presidents son and then kidnapped, brought to another country and was a slave in that one. That would be terrible.
D. The quote i like a lot was, "Thanks to Hermes the guide, who gives all work of our hands the grace and fame that it deserves, no one alive can match me at household chores: Building a good fire, splitting kindling neatly, carving, roasting meat and pouring rounds of wine.... anything menials do to serve their noble masters." I thought this was really funny when I read it.
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Post by nvanible on Oct 28, 2013 4:44:16 GMT -5
D. When Telemachus and Nestor’s son were departing for Ithaca, “Farewell, my princes! Give my warm greetings to Nestor, the great commander, always kind to me as a father, long ago when we young men of Achaea fought at Troy,” I felt like it gave some context as to the mood of when Telemachus left the island. Unlike his father’s many adventures, Telemachus manages to depart on good terms with the people there, easily earning their respect. In addition, it showed that while Odysseus was good in persuading people to get his way, his son never needed to do that as he is shown to be well liked by the community in a sense.
E. When the rising of the sun was being described, “At those words Dawn rose on her golden throne and Menelaus, lord of the warcry, rising up from bed by the side of Helen with her loose and lovely hair, walked toward his guests,” I loved how the scenery of the sun ascending is pictured as sort of a living creature in this story. Not only does it give a little taste of the mood and tone of the scene, but it is nonetheless a great description of what “Dawn” would be doing if it was involved more interactively in this story.
I. When richteri16 was talking about the woman leaving her son, she was probably struggling with some sort of internal stress that she had been conflicted about. However, that does not give the right to abandon a child in need ever.
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Post by vazquezm16 on Oct 28, 2013 9:31:26 GMT -5
C. In lines 311-313 Telemachus agrees to take Theoclymenus on his ship and take Theoclymenus with him on his travels. I found this odd that he would just let some random stranger onto his boat even after the stranger said that he was wanted for killing a man. I probably would never consider bringing him with me considering he killed somebody and might kill me and steal my ship. D. I like lines 541-552 because Odysseus is just praising himself while he s trying to feel bad for Eumaeus. He is very committed to his part of being a beggar by saying that he has been drifting through cities up and down the earth. “Eumaeus, so much misery! You’ve moved my heart, deeply, with your long tale-such pain, such, sorrow. True, but look at the good fortune Zeus sends you, hand-in-hand with the bad. After all your toil you reached the house of a decent, kindly man who gives you all you need in meat and drink-he’s seen to that, I’d say-it’s a fine life you lead! Better than mine…I’ve been drifting through cities up and down the earth and now I’ve landed here.” This quote also shows how much of a big head Odysseus has to keep complimenting himself over and over.2 I. I agree with bakerm16 about how Odysseus uses reverse psychology to his advantage. He knows that his host is hospitable and despises the suitors because he likes Odysseus and insists on going begging in town and asking the suitors for food. Odysseus fully knows what the response to the question will be, but asks anyways so that it will seem like Eumaeus’ idea that he should stick around for longer. This is another example of how Odysseus is very good with words and tricking others.
C. In lines 311-313 Telemachus agrees to take Theoclymenus on his ship and take Theoclymenus with him on his travels. I found this odd that he would just let some random stranger onto his boat even after the stranger said that he was wanted for killing a man. I probably would never consider bringing him with me considering he killed somebody and might kill me and steal my ship. D. I like lines 541-552 because Odysseus is just praising himself while he s trying to feel bad for Eumaeus. He is very committed to his part of being a beggar by saying that he has been drifting through cities up and down the earth. “Eumaeus, so much misery! You’ve moved my heart, deeply, with your long tale-such pain, such, sorrow. True, but look at the good fortune Zeus sends you, hand-in-hand with the bad. After all your toil you reached the house of a decent, kindly man who gives you all you need in meat and drink-he’s seen to that, I’d say-it’s a fine life you lead! Better than mine…I’ve been drifting through cities up and down the earth and now I’ve landed here.” This quote also shows how much of a big head Odysseus has to keep complimenting himself over and over.2 I. I agree with bakerm16 about how Odysseus uses reverse psychology to his advantage. He knows that his host is hospitable and despises the suitors because he likes Odysseus and insists on going begging in town and asking the suitors for food. Odysseus fully knows what the response to the question will be, but asks anyways so that it will seem like Eumaeus’ idea that he should stick around for longer. This is another example of how Odysseus is very good with words and tricking others.
C. In lines 311-313 Telemachus agrees to take Theoclymenus on his ship and take Theoclymenus with him on his travels. I found this odd that he would just let some random stranger onto his boat even after the stranger said that he was wanted for killing a man. I probably would never consider bringing him with me considering he killed somebody and might kill me and steal my ship. D. I like lines 541-552 because Odysseus is just praising himself while he s trying to feel bad for Eumaeus. He is very committed to his part of being a beggar by saying that he has been drifting through cities up and down the earth. “Eumaeus, so much misery! You’ve moved my heart, deeply, with your long tale-such pain, such, sorrow. True, but look at the good fortune Zeus sends you, hand-in-hand with the bad. After all your toil you reached the house of a decent, kindly man who gives you all you need in meat and drink-he’s seen to that, I’d say-it’s a fine life you lead! Better than mine…I’ve been drifting through cities up and down the earth and now I’ve landed here.” This quote also shows how much of a big head Odysseus has to keep complimenting himself over and over.2 I. I agree with bakerm16 about how Odysseus uses reverse psychology to his advantage. He knows that his host is hospitable and despises the suitors because he likes Odysseus and insists on going begging in town and asking the suitors for food. Odysseus fully knows what the response to the question will be, but asks anyways so that it will seem like Eumaeus’ idea that he should stick around for longer. This is another example of how Odysseus is very good with words and tricking others.
C. In lines 311-313 Telemachus agrees to take Theoclymenus on his ship and take Theoclymenus with him on his travels. I found this odd that he would just let some random stranger onto his boat even after the stranger said that he was wanted for killing a man. I probably would never consider bringing him with me considering he killed somebody and might kill me and steal my ship. D. I like lines 541-552 because Odysseus is just praising himself while he s trying to feel bad for Eumaeus. He is very committed to his part of being a beggar by saying that he has been drifting through cities up and down the earth. “Eumaeus, so much misery! You’ve moved my heart, deeply, with your long tale-such pain, such, sorrow. True, but look at the good fortune Zeus sends you, hand-in-hand with the bad. After all your toil you reached the house of a decent, kindly man who gives you all you need in meat and drink-he’s seen to that, I’d say-it’s a fine life you lead! Better than mine…I’ve been drifting through cities up and down the earth and now I’ve landed here.” This quote also shows how much of a big head Odysseus has to keep complimenting himself over and over.2 I. I agree with bakerm16 about how Odysseus uses reverse psychology to his advantage. He knows that his host is hospitable and despises the suitors because he likes Odysseus and insists on going begging in town and asking the suitors for food. Odysseus fully knows what the response to the question will be, but asks anyways so that it will seem like Eumaeus’ idea that he should stick around for longer. This is another example of how Odysseus is very good with words and tricking others.
C. In lines 311-313 Telemachus agrees to take Theoclymenus on his ship and take Theoclymenus with him on his travels. I found this odd that he would just let some random stranger onto his boat even after the stranger said that he was wanted for killing a man. I probably would never consider bringing him with me considering he killed somebody and might kill me and steal my ship. D. I like lines 541-552 because Odysseus is just praising himself while he s trying to feel bad for Eumaeus. He is very committed to his part of being a beggar by saying that he has been drifting through cities up and down the earth. “Eumaeus, so much misery! You’ve moved my heart, deeply, with your long tale-such pain, such, sorrow. True, but look at the good fortune Zeus sends you, hand-in-hand with the bad. After all your toil you reached the house of a decent, kindly man who gives you all you need in meat and drink-he’s seen to that, I’d say-it’s a fine life you lead! Better than mine…I’ve been drifting through cities up and down the earth and now I’ve landed here.” This quote also shows how much of a big head Odysseus has to keep complimenting himself over and over.2 I. I agree with bakerm16 about how Odysseus uses reverse psychology to his advantage. He knows that his host is hospitable and despises the suitors because he likes Odysseus and insists on going begging in town and asking the suitors for food. Odysseus fully knows what the response to the question will be, but asks anyways so that it will seem like Eumaeus’ idea that he should stick around for longer. This is another example of how Odysseus is very good with words and tricking others.
C. In lines 311-313 Telemachus agrees to take Theoclymenus on his ship and take Theoclymenus with him on his travels. I found this odd that he would just let some random stranger onto his boat even after the stranger said that he was wanted for killing a man. I probably would never consider bringing him with me considering he killed somebody and might kill me and steal my ship. D. I like lines 541-552 because Odysseus is just praising himself while he s trying to feel bad for Eumaeus. He is very committed to his part of being a beggar by saying that he has been drifting through cities up and down the earth. “Eumaeus, so much misery! You’ve moved my heart, deeply, with your long tale-such pain, such, sorrow. True, but look at the good fortune Zeus sends you, hand-in-hand with the bad. After all your toil you reached the house of a decent, kindly man who gives you all you need in meat and drink-he’s seen to that, I’d say-it’s a fine life you lead! Better than mine…I’ve been drifting through cities up and down the earth and now I’ve landed here.” This quote also shows how much of a big head Odysseus has to keep complimenting himself over and over.2 I. I agree with bakerm16 about how Odysseus uses reverse psychology to his advantage. He knows that his host is hospitable and despises the suitors because he likes Odysseus and insists on going begging in town and asking the suitors for food. Odysseus fully knows what the response to the question will be, but asks anyways so that it will seem like Eumaeus’ idea that he should stick around for longer. This is another example of how Odysseus is very good with words and tricking others.
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Post by hankmichels on Oct 28, 2013 16:26:38 GMT -5
E. I noticed that The swineherd dude said he grew up with Laertes daughter. This makes me wonder because if Laertes is the Father of Odysseus, does this mean that Odysseus has a sister? That’s kind o f strange considering that she was never mentioned once in the entirety of the Odyssey. It seems like everyone else gets a back story and we could name a least five people related to the smallest character, but Odysseus has secret relatives. You are supposed to know more about the protagonist of the story more than any other Character. Kind of like in Now You See Me with the twist ending that felt off, because (spoiler alert) the main guy is the bad guy behind the heists. It just didn’t feel right.
F. I feel like the fugitive is kind of a useless character. He starts out with an interesting plot, saying that he is a fugitive on the run. He could have all this cool stuff going on with him, but all he does is interperate omens.
C. why doesn’t the swineherd suspect something by now? All odysseus has done is drill him with questions about odysseus’s family. The swineherd should probably come to the conclusion that this guy must be odysseus or at least has something to do with odysseus. I mean, what stranger would go to some ones homeland and just start asking questions about person and their family? At least he should suspect that Odysseus is up to no good.
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Post by Ray Park on Oct 28, 2013 22:55:41 GMT -5
C. In this book many important events have taken place. Telemachus decides to come back to Ithaca from his trip to see Menelaus and basically is going to see his father. What confuesed me a little was the actions of Odysseus when he was in Eumaeas's house. He purposely says he wants to leave bu he actually doesnt. I do understand that he was testing his kindness and sincerety of his servant but was it significant? Did it really matter that he stayed at the house of his? Another thing we see was the history of Eumaeas. He tells Odysseus how he was the son of a king till he was kidnapped by a bunch of pirates. How did he feel about this? Did he ever want to go home and see his parents because that way he could be living a wealthy life. E. When Eumaeas was explaining his past history of himself, i had sympathy for him. Although I had not been kidnapped before, I do know what it feels like to be far away from home. Therefore I can see how he must be feeling telling his story to Odysseus. I feel bad for him in a way also because he could be living as a wealthy royal but he still sits in Ithaca alone and poor. I. I agree with Stephanos Cocoves with the fact that Eumaeus is having to struggle.
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