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Post by Mr. Thomas on Oct 17, 2013 16:55:25 GMT -5
Post responses here.
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Post by rozzayhill007 on Oct 17, 2013 20:00:38 GMT -5
Jackson Hill
C. One thing that I am confused about is on page 285, the past paragraph of book 12. The quote says, “ Why cover the same ground again? Just yesterday, here at hall, I told you all the rest you and your gracious wife. It goes against my grain to repeat a tale told once, and told so clearly.” What do these lines mean. And what tale was told?
D. A line that I like is on page 271 starting with the first line. This quote is just describing the scene, but I feel like I can actually imagine this setting in my mind. “ Now when our ship had left the Ocean River rolling in her wake and launched out into open sea with its long swells to reach the island of Aeaea…the crews swung out on the low sloping shore and there we fell asleep, awaiting Dawn’s first light.” I like the way that Homer personifies the sun as a person who will rise and create light for the world. This quote is very descriptive and very appealing to me because of these aspects.
E. A characters actions that I am surprised by is Circe. I am surprised by her actions on page 272 where she is saying that she will provide Odysseus and his men with an alternate route to get back to Ithaca without troubles or problems occurring. I am surprised by this because Circe was at first described as an evil person who would try to deceive people, however she’d doing the exact opposite. She is being kind, nice and helpful to Odysseus and his men.
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Post by richteri16 on Oct 17, 2013 20:03:53 GMT -5
E. The encounter of Scylla and Charybdis is very disturbing on lines 253-281. First Odysseus and his crew see these terrifying whirlpools that are so strong that you could see the sand at the bottom. The waves were very violent and seawater was flying everywhere. Right off the bat Scylla takes six men who were believed to be the strongest and toughest on the ship. All they could do is scream as they were hoisted away. As they were being pulled off they called out Odysseus’s name. Homer goes into too much detail to explain how the men react as they are torn apart. They wither and gasp as they flail their arms around. They are swallowed whole. This experience is what disturbed Odysseus the most.
B. I think that the encounter of Scylla and Charybdis on lines 253-281 is what gave Odysseus such horrible PTSD. The first reason to me thinking this is that these were not human. They were horrible beasts. Their very sight was horrifying and even gods did not look at them. Next, the environment in which the two lived in was horrible too. They lived in huge cliffs. Around the cliffs were violent waters with terrible whirlpools and waves that sprayed water like a water park ride. The worst part was how the men were hauled off and destroyed. All the beasts had to do was as reach down and grab someone. They were swallowed whole. Odysseus even says that this was his worst experience on the sea.
C. Why did Odysseus have to pass all of these horrors like the Sirens or Scylla and Charybdis? Could he have just gone around them and stayed away from all the death and problems?
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Post by alis16 on Oct 17, 2013 20:24:06 GMT -5
Stephen Ali Mr. Thomas English 10 Homework October 17, 2013 E. My reactions are tot the scenes at the end of Book 12 , it is when like always Odysseus is able to survive a terrible ship crash brought upon not Poseidon , but Zeus himself. Odysseus being the only one to survive the storm considering a good portion of his crew was eating by the Scylla who is a six headed beats who had ate six men in the crew. The thing that I find ironic or that I find that has meaning behind it is that why did Odysseus get washed up tot the island of Calypso , were he had to spend a entire seven years of his life . I think the gods meant for this to happen or that Athena once again interfered in the matters of Odysseus‘s life. I think it is sort of his destiny to do something important on this island , but I don’t know what and soon to find out later in the future books. G. If I was Odysseus when six of his men wren killed I would have probably been very sad and there would probably be a dramatic scene. I think Odysseus did not really show a lot of emotion when his men were killed and he acted very stoic and he might of maybe been in shock , but seeing six men that you spent a long time with be killed would be a very dramatic experience , but it seemed not to be so to Odysseus.
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Post by alis16 on Oct 17, 2013 20:24:58 GMT -5
Part C alis16 C. Why does Odysseus want to avoid the island of Thrinacia so bad?
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Post by hessd16 on Oct 17, 2013 20:41:00 GMT -5
(Dakota Hess) D. I was very entertained to see this one line from the reading tonight. This was just after the shipmates encounter with the sirens. Line 245 – “But now I cleared my mind of Circe’s orders – cramping my style, urging me not to arm at all” I thought this was a very modern saying. “Cramping” someone’s style was not something I imagined Odysseus to say. C. Why exactly does Odysseus have to go through all these things to get home? He loses 6 of his best men! Is there not another, easier passage to get back to Ithaca? Also, I noticed that Odysseus is very obeying of the things Circe says. Obeying is not what I expect from the great leader and warrior Odysseus. Does he listen to Circe just because that he now sleeps with her? Does she still have some underlying charm that keeps Odysseus coming? I. I also really liked how Homer describes Dawn and personifying just as rozzayhill007 said: {A line that I like is on page 271 starting with the first line. This quote is just describing the scene, but I feel like I can actually imagine this setting in my mind. “ Now when our ship had left the Ocean River rolling in her wake and launched out into open sea with its long swells to reach the island of Aeaea…the crews swung out on the low sloping shore and there we fell asleep, awaiting Dawn’s first light.” I like the way that Homer personifies the sun as a person who will rise and create light for the world. This quote is very descriptive and very appealing to me because of these aspects.}
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Post by idelfonsoe16 on Oct 17, 2013 20:49:33 GMT -5
I. I.To answer your question rozzay007, Odysseus does not for his life want to repeat the story of Calypso. This basically means that his flashback is finally over, and it is now time for him to set sail once again to Ithaca. While he states that he doesn’t want to tell it again in detail, he’s saying that with a lot of emotion because he hates Calypso so much. But when I say hate I mean HATES Calypso. C. WHY!? Why would Odysseus leave his shipmates alone!? They are like little children when it comes to food! I think that this is all Eurylochus’ fault. If it weren’t for his rebellious style, Odysseus wouldn’t have to deal with Zeus himself killing his entire crew. After all, Eurylochus is the one who convinces the others to kill Helios’ cattle. But seriously, if an immortal who knows all tells you, not to eat a specific god’s cattle, DON’T EAT THE SPECIFIC god’s CATTLE! Who cares if they were hungry? They were STILL going to be fed, since it was foretold that they all were GOING to return to Ithaca! H. The way I saw the scene where Zeus rains hellfire on Odysseus is a black ship surrounded by deformed humans crawling all over, and water tornadoes cover the entire horizon around them, leaving the ship and its passengers completely trapped. Then I pictured eye-shaped thunder emitting from the tornadoes, then it disappears and releases a thunderbolt that defies gravity. I imagined Odysseus running for his life on the ship as pieces of his craft was floating around destroying everything, and I also imagined the shipmates being torn apart by the human amalgamations, the thunder, and the water tornadoes.
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Post by petergiglio on Oct 17, 2013 20:55:26 GMT -5
C. im starting to have the feeling that Odysseus is just roaming the world until he reaches home. I mean how does he know how to get home if have the time he doesnt know where he is. Im still uncertain as to why he has to go through all this crap to get back to ithica unless of course its his character. I dont really see any other because hes being pretty good and humble such as hes being obedient to what Circe says which is kind of unexpected from his known arrogant self.
g. If i were odysseus and i just witnessed six of my men being killed that i was rather close to i would be heart broken. as much as i think odysseus is all about himself, i must give it to him that he is very brave and practically someone who doesnt let things phase his determination to getting what he wants. Pretty stoic and fierce.
I. I agree with what hessd16 had said about "cramping my style." i had to read that over a couple times to make sure thats what he actually said because it is very modern or very 2007. clearly it isnt very 2007 and more like anicient greek
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Post by johnaviles on Oct 17, 2013 21:14:33 GMT -5
C. I was kind of confused as to why they would decide to have a decent funeral/ritual for Elpenor now after everything that has happened. I also wondered why they were so upset by the death, I understand they were all crewmates and such but he was foolish enough to cause his own death. I just find no point in it. Maybe it’s because as a leader and a role model Odysseus feels like it’s the right thing to do but I feel they should’ve just left it alone. “I dispatched some men to Circe’s halls to bring the dead Elpenor’s body. We cut logs in haste and out on the islands’ sharpest jutting headland held his funeral rites in sorrow, streaming tears.”
E. I myself felt pressured when I was reading about how Circe was telling Odysseus what his next steps are to be when she says, “But once your crew has rowed you past the Sirens a choice of routes is yours. I cannot advise you which to take, or lead you through it all-you must decide for yourself-but I can tell you the ways of either coarse.” This is a really serious situation and a lot of thought must be put into something like this! This is your way home!
I. I wanted to say this in class but the bell rang. We were talking about how Achilles attitude changed and I wanted to say he is being sour grapes about how he can’t hold that same power anymore. When Odysseus is telling him about how he was such a powerful person I feel like Achilles just gets even more mad that things can’t ever go back to how they were before.
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Post by bakerm16 on Oct 17, 2013 21:32:35 GMT -5
i. I agree with hessd16 in his C response. Odysseus is not being his usual bold self He is only doing what Circe wants him to do. Odysseus usually makes decisions on his own instead of relying on someone to make his decisions for him. I do not like this side of Odysseus that he is showing. I prefer that bold and brave Odysseus that sometimes makes the wrong decision.
D. THis is not a great Book for Odysseus. I am really questioning his decision making skills. 6 of his men are now dead. OVerall nothing seems to go his way. Another odd thing that happened in this passage is when Odysseus decides to leave his immature shipmates alone with the God's cattle. I mean he should really know by now that they will be tempted to eat. They've gone on a very long journey and are so hungry. They have food waiting at Ithaca but they do not want to wait for it. Its like when you're on a long car ride home and a kid is hungry but you decide not to stop in the middle of the journey because they have food already for them at home.
C. I still feel that Odysseus' journey is very prolonged. He has passed Ithaca so many times it almost seems like he is avoiding the place he claims he longs to get to the most.
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Post by michaelgenco on Oct 17, 2013 21:33:31 GMT -5
D. One part of the book that reminded me of something was when Circe tells Odysseus about the Sirens. She says, “First you will raise the island of the Sirens, those creatures who spellbind any man alive, whoever comes their way. Whoever draws too close, off guard, and catches the Siren’s voices in the air- no sailing home for him, no wife rising to meet him, no happy children beaming up at their father’s face. The high, thrilling song of the Sirens will transfix, lolling there in their meadow, round them heaps of corpses rotting away, rags of skin shriveling on their bones.” This scene in this book reminded me of a scene in Pirates of the Caribbean. Captain Jack and his men get to an island that have Sirens, and most of his men are taken by them. This scene also gives me the goosebumps with the descriptive writing Homer uses. Homer says, “Rags of skin shriveling on their bones.” C. I am extremely confused why Odysseus would still listen to Eurylochus. Why would you take a chance? I understand that he told his men to bind an oath, but people do stupid stuff. Why would you stop and risk it all, then have your men mad at you but do the right thing. E. When I read the description of Scylla I immediately got scared just thinking about her. First off she has 12 legs and 6 long swaying necks. Each of her heads barbed with a triple row of fangs. It is like a giant spider and a vampire had a baby.
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Post by stephanoscocoves on Oct 17, 2013 23:02:16 GMT -5
C. I was confused about the last paragraph in Book 12. it states “ Why cover the same ground again? Just yesterday, here at hall, I told you all the rest you and your gracious wife. It goes against my grain to repeat a tale told once, and told so clearly.” IM kind of unsure what that means. G. I i wintessed 6 of my men being killed (being Odysseus) i would feel heartbroken, losing warriors is like losing brothers and it can be hard for people at times. D. I really liked the line, But now I cleared my mind of Circe’s orders – cramping my style, urging me not to arm at all”. I thought it was funnny hearing the kind of modern word "crapmin" but seeing that it was also used back in the day and i mean way back. It funny how words kind of disappear and then return, and become renew.
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Post by Ray Park on Oct 18, 2013 1:22:13 GMT -5
D. “First you will raise the island of the Sirens, those creatures who spellbind any man alive, whoever comes their way. Whoever draws too close, off guard, and catches the Siren’s voices in the air- no sailing home for him, no wife rising to meet him, no happy children beaming up at their father’s face. The high, thrilling song of the Sirens will transfix, lolling there in their meadow, round them heaps of corpses rotting away, rags of skin shriveling on their bones.” This was a great part of the book for me. This sentecne gave me a whole scenery of imagination of what will happen and what will become in the future. With this sentence I can clearly see what was going on in everyone's mind and just fortell the future. C. I was quite bewildered on why Odyesseus left his shipmates all by themselves. Not that they cant take care of themselves well, but just like the drunk crewmate that fell on his neck, his crewmates arent the smartest and logical group of people. In the cave of Polyphemus they decided to eat the food of the Cyclobs like idiots. So leaving his crewmates is like practically killing them. I. I agree with Eric Ildefonso on why he would just leave his crewmates by himself.
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Post by nvanible on Oct 18, 2013 5:59:45 GMT -5
C. When Odysseus was retelling his story, he brings up the character Scylla, “Scylla lurks inside it—the yelping horror, yelping, no louder than any suckling pup but she’s a grisly monster. I assure you. No one could look on her with any joy, not even a god who meets her face-to-face,” I was wondering if she was some unknown creature. Because, based on the information in that one passage given, she sounded like she could either be human, a hybrid of human and another animal, or an entirely new creature which has not been introduced in the story yet. In addition, if she was even too terrifying for gods to look at, why is she looked down upon? I understand that she made be viewed as a negative threat, but so are some of the gods, so why is she not considered a god as well, if her “abilities” are great enough to scare gods?
E. When Odysseus and his crew returned to Circe’s island, he lays out Elpenor’s body, “I dispatched some men to Circe’s halls to bring the dead Elpenor’s body. We cut logs in haste and out on the island’s sharpest jutting headland held his funeral rites in sorrow, streaming tears,” I respected Odysseus greatly for that, as he was showing his more compassionate side. Hosting a funeral in honor of another is something that Odysseus probably doesn’t do often, so Elpenor must have been special to him & his crew or at least important.
I. When richteri16 talked about Odysseus and how he could have avoided the sirens and Syclla, I think that he either wanted to go through with the experience, learning of what happened to these people, making it a more subconscious choice, or that maybe he was going to end up experiencing it anyway, sort of like a predestination.
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Post by hankmichels on Oct 18, 2013 6:18:28 GMT -5
E. I thought it was pretty cool what Odysseus did with the sirens. Usually, I feel that most of his decisions are pretty stupid and this one was to, but it was also pretty cool. What happens is that Odysseus commands his men to put wax in their ears and to tie himself up so he can hear the sirens without being lured in. I don’t know, but I think that was just cool. So now he is the first person in the history of the world to hear the sirens songs without dying. “So they sent their ravishing voices out across the air and the heart inside me throbbed to listen longer” (208-209) That line alone does a great job of showing how beautiful the sirens music is.
D. “We’d scarcely put that island astern when suddenly I saw smoke and heavy breakers, heard their booming thunder. The men were terrified- oarblades flew from their grip, clattering down to splash inn the vessels wash. She lay there, dead in the water…” (218-222) I think that line does a great job of expressing pure terror. The men were so scared they dropped their oars and they were just floating in the open water.
C. Why did Odysseus listen to his men when they decided to go the Cattle island. Odysseus knew it was going to kill them. He is in charge of his ship, just tell them they’ll die and continue on. “Zeus hit the craft with a lightening bolt… Cut short there journey home forever,” Yep they died and they learned their lesson. They cant aply that knowledge now, though.
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