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Post by Mr. Thomas on Oct 11, 2013 9:24:59 GMT -5
Post responses here.
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Post by hankmichels on Oct 11, 2013 9:54:44 GMT -5
D. I think it is a really cool line when Odysseus meets Achilles in the Underworld and he says: “I’d rather be a poor country farmer who is alive then a glorious lord in the underworld.” (Book 11) Right before that, Odysseus asks him if its great being so famous in the underworld, but Achilles must think it sucks no matter how famous you are. I guess this gives us a little insight on the character of Achilles. It shows that now matter how powerful, how strong and how famous he is, he would give all that up instead of dying. And he has a point. I mean, what could be down in the underworld that could possibly be fun. All it is is endless years of sitting around and waiting for nothing.
C. Did we hear of Elpenor before? In this book it states that he died by falling off a roof back at calypso’s island. I did not remember that happening at all. It did say that he was “freshly fallen”, so did he recently die? Did he choose to stay behind with calypso, and did he fall just minutes before Odysseus enters the underworld? I swear I don’t remember that.
H. Odysseus is standing a tremendous dark cavern, miles below the ground, dim light shines from torches on the wall. The cold, hard floor is spotted with puddles. Around Odysseus are thousands of souls, waiting for a drink of blood so they can speak with the famous hero.
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Post by Matthew Baker on Oct 13, 2013 11:55:05 GMT -5
I. In response to hankmichels I think that details of Elepenor's death would have occurred between books 1 and 5. Recall that we skipped about 100 pages of the Odyssey so come details that we see in this part of the books will not make sense to us. I however do not recall ever hearing the name either. "Freshly fallen" I do not know what means but I also agree to your definition of recently dead. D. In this part of book 11 I like the description that us given for the House of Death and everything in it. My favorite lines are: "...flocking toward me now, the ghosts of the dead and gone... Brides and unwed youths and old men who had suffered much and girls with their tender hearts freshly scarred with sorrow and great armies of battle dead...unearthly cries -- blanching terror gripped me". I like these few lines because I can almost visualize what Odysseusbis seeing while he is in the "Kingdom of the dead". Terror would grip me as well. H. (Not sure if I am doing this prompt correctly) In the House of Death the first thing I see in an abandoned mansion that is burning everlastingly. I amo visualizing Odysseus and the others entering through a door that is already open very slowly and very quietly. Something I see that is weird however is a little area that of the flaming mansion that is perfectly fine. It is not hot nor cold. I am currently visualizing Odysseus seeing dead people "Brides and unwed youths" . By seeing them however he touched this little area and he invisions all this and he is so overcome by terror that he pulls his hand away from the area very quickly.
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Post by richteri16 on Oct 14, 2013 13:21:02 GMT -5
E. Lines 57-64 was shocking to me. I did not know that Odysseus and his crew just left Elphenor’s body behind. The least they could have done was give him a decent burial. They just left him at Circe’s house. Then when Odysseus looks back at it he feels bad. Well he sure should because that is messed up. I would want some respect when I die. I do realize that the circumstances of Elphenor’s death were a little silly. He did accidentally fall of a off which is perfectly preventable but still give him a burial.
F. Lines 233-245 show the close relationship that Odysseus and his mother have. When she tells him that she dies of grief because he was gone for so long he feels very sad. Odysseus tries to embrace her three times but he falls through her like a hologram. Every time he tried he grew sadder and sadder. He asks he why she did not just wait for him. She should heave waited so he could have hugged her when he retuned. This is a very emotional scene in the book and it really helps offer some clarity on Odysseus and the relationship between him and his mother.
C. I am pretty confused with lines 26-31. Who would want a mixture of milk, honey, wine, water, and barley? That is really gross. I don’t care how dead I am, I will not drink that. If you are going to give me a sacrifice then give me something good. What’s even worse is how the spirits drink it! That is beyond me.
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Post by zaysofly on Oct 14, 2013 14:37:37 GMT -5
D: I thought it was really funny when the first soul to show up to Odysseus is Elpenor, the drunken man who fell off the roof because he partied to hard. He asks Odysseus to go back to the island to give him a proper burial. I thought it was just funny the way he died, so irresponsibly. I honestly don’t understand why he would ask for that. It reminds me of the saying. You’re going to dig your own grave, and sleep in it too. I think there are many other people more deserving to be properly apprehended into the afterlife. Also, from experience and from watching TV a lot I know that when you tell someone not to do something, they will be twice as likely to do it. So when he warns Odysseus not to touch the flocks of sun when he reaches the land of Thrinacia, I feel like something id going to go terribly wrong. I presume that Odysseus will end up touching the flock and end up side tracking him somewhere else and make his trip home so much longer. It just seems periodically correct, kind of like the incident with the winds, which left his crew with nowhere to go. C: I was confused on why he had to drink such a nasty mixture of milk, honey, barley, wine and water it seems very disgusting F: I see Odysseus on a cavern floor, its dark and cold, and there a hundreds of souls surrounding asking him for mercy.
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Post by petergiglio on Oct 14, 2013 15:09:52 GMT -5
C. something that confused me about this was that Elpenor died falling off a roof on Calypso's island. But the thing is I don't know if they had already mentioned him in the past and I missed it or we are just meeting him in the story now because it does say in the book that he was freshly fallen. Im not quite sure what that means either other than the fact that he fell off of the roof recently.
E. What I found kind of suprising but I still don't know why I did was how they had just left Elpenor. I feel like it's something that Odysseus didn't want to do but he didn't feel like he had any other option. I mean a proper funeral should be in order although Elpenor is an idiot and could've completely prevented him from dying. This could be found in lines 56-64.
G. If I were elpenor I would be quite pissed. First for being so stupid and allowing myself to be completely unaware of my surroundings all fall off a roof to my death which is a very stupid and idiotic way to die. Also I would be a little upset at Odysseus and his men for just leaving me there at Circes house. I mean come on, I would have liked to at least be put away properly and not left to rot.
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Post by rozzayhill007 on Oct 14, 2013 17:22:36 GMT -5
Jackson Hill
D. Lines that I like come up on page 254, “ ‘Oh Tiresias,’ I replied as the prophet finished, ‘surely the gods have spun this out as fate, the gods themselves. But tell me on thing more, and tell me clearly. I see the ghost of my long-lost morther here before me. Dead, crouching close to the blood in silence, she cannot bear to look me in the eyes—her own son—or speak a work to me. How, lord, can I make her know me for the man I am?” The reason why I like this quote is because I feel like it relates to the real world. Us as humans are trying to gain acceptance into certain peoples lives everyday, but it is hard to gain that acceptance if you have a bad reputation like Odysseus does, and now that his mother has a ghost it is even harder to gain her acceptance because she is no longer living.
C. Something that I am really confused on is why he would drink a mixture of milk, barley, wine, water, and honey. First of all that’s just disgusting, and second is there any point to doing so?
I. I agree with petergiglio. Why did they just leave Elpenor there like that. I think that a formal burial would have been much better.
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Post by alis16 on Oct 14, 2013 18:34:48 GMT -5
Stephen Ali Mr. Thomas English 10 Homework October 14, 2013 E. My reaction is to the scene were Odysseus reaches the river of ocean . When he is there the first soul that talks to him is Elpenor , who was part of Odysseus crew when they were at Circe’s island , but he did ,because he fell off of her roof killing himself. The main point is that he begs Odysseus to return to Circe’s island and get his body and give it a proper and honorable burial. First off all I would not even consider going back there ,because I am just going to waste a lot of time that I can spend trying to get back home . Second, the only reason your died right knew is, because you decided to act like a fool on Circe’s island and someone how you were able to jump off the roof killing yourself. G. If I was Odysseus when Elpenor begged be to bring his body back and give him a proper burial I would of told him no way ,because the only person to blame that your body is on island miles away from me is your own and that you should be ashamed. I am not going to waste my time trying to make sure his body gets a proper burial, there are more important matters at the time to deal with and his burial is not one of them. C. I don’t understand why Odysseus wants to drink a mixture of milk, honey, water, barley and wine, it does not seem so tasty.
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Post by johnaviles on Oct 14, 2013 20:11:40 GMT -5
B. This specific reading is very significant in relation to the rest of the text for many reasons. The main reason why it’s so significant is because Odysseus speaks to Tiresias who gives him much advice on how he is going to get back to Ithica and what his journey is going to entail as well as the sacrifices he is going to need to make. “Even so, you and your crew may still reach home, suffering al the way, of you only have the power…” “When another traveler falls in with you and calls that weight across your shoulder a fan to winnow grain, then plant your bladed, balanced the oar in the earth and sacrifice fine beats…” E. I was very happy when Odysseus encounters his mother at the House of Death. It seems like he hasn’t seen her in a while plus she comes in handy giving him the lay-down on what is going on back at home, how his wife and son are doing, and even how his estates are doing. Plus is both seemed like the haven’t seen eachother in a while and they were glad they had that interaction. “She’s still waiting there in your halls, poor woman suffering so,her life an endless hardship like your own…” “Telemachus still holds your great estates in peace…” “As for your father, he keeps to his own farm- he never goes to town…” I. I agree with petergiglio “E” response. They did have much adventure together and suffered together and a proper funeral would be ideal especially for a fellow crew mate.
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Post by idelfonsoe16 on Oct 14, 2013 20:25:23 GMT -5
B. This reading is significant because this is basically the foreshadowing of what is to come to Odysseus in the future. Odysseus doesn’t expect his future to be filled with such hardship, so he doesn’t pay any mind to it at all. I think this is showing us his arrogance again because he thinks that he is the “infallible” hero, who is never wrong nor does he make the wrong choices. C. How did Odysseus’ mother die by just waiting for Odysseus? Was that suicide? I could understand if it was of a heart attack or something, but I think its suicide. She could have been just like Penelope and waited for Odysseus instead of wasting her life. Also, Odysseus is not the person he claimed to be in his other expeditions. He seems very weak in this scene. I know it is about his mother, but he was also JUST RECENTLY told his fate. Is he more upset about what is going to happen to him and his friends, or is he upset at what happened to his mother? I. I disagree with petergiglio, because he was completely drunk, and I’m pretty sure the Greeks really didn’t care if a drunk person killed themselves. The same way it is funny how a drunk person can barely walk, it could be the same for Odysseus and his crew! We only see Odysseus upset NOW because he finds him dead, but when he was with Circe he actually didn’t seem liked he cared. For an ENTIRE YEAR.
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Post by michaelgenco on Oct 14, 2013 20:44:18 GMT -5
C. I was very confused when Odysseus was talking to Elpenor. Elpenor dies from falling off Circe’s roof and he said, “Don’t sail off and desert me, left behind unwept, unburied, don’t or my curse may draw god’s fury on you.” I thought that this was confusing because why would Elpenor threaten Odysseus? It wasn’t Odysseus fault that he got drunk and fell off of the roof. Another thing that was confusing to me was why did the ghosts drink the blood that Odysseus brought out? Why was it blood?
D. A quote that I really enjoyed was when Odysseus was talking to Tiresias, and Tiresias says, “A sweet smooth journey home, renowned Odysseus, that is what you seek but a god will make it hard for you-I know-you will never escape the one who shakes the earth, quaking with anger at you still, still enraged because you blinded the Cyclops, his dear son. Even so, you and your crew may still reach home, suffering all the way, if you only have the power to curb their wild desire and curb your own.” There is much more, but if I add it there won’t be enough space to put it in. I enjoy this quote because Tiresias is telling Odysseus what he did. He is telling Odysseus what he needs to do to go back home. It also foreshadowed what is going to happen with the suitors, and his crew mates.
E. When Odysseus’ mother was telling Odysseus how she died she said, “No, it was my longing for you, my shinning Odysseus- you and your quickness, you and your gentle ways- that tore away my life that had been sweet.” I thought that this scene must have been extremely hard on Odysseus because his mother is telling him that the reason for her death is because of him.
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Post by stephanoscocoves on Oct 14, 2013 23:29:19 GMT -5
B. THe reading was significant because it basically foreshadows of what is coming for Odysseus. Odysseus i feel is being a little cocky here and not expexcting the rest fo the journey to be a difficult one. I. I agree with michaelgenco. I really liked that quote “A sweet smooth journey home, renowned Odysseus, that is what you seek but a god will make it hard for you-I know-you will never escape the one who shakes the earth, quaking with anger at you still, still enraged because you blinded the Cyclops, his dear son. Even so, you and your crew may still reach home, suffering all the way, if you only have the power to curb their wild desire and curb your own. C. I was confused about when Odysseus was talking to the emporer. It just didnt really make sense.
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Post by jotirmoykundu on Oct 14, 2013 23:40:15 GMT -5
C.I didn’t understand how his mother died by just waiting for Odysseus? Was it a heart attack or was it suicide? She could have just did what Penelope did and waited for Odysseus. Also, Odysseus is not the person he claimed to be in his other expeditions because he seems very weak in this scene. He was also just told his fate so which is he more upset about: what is going to happen to him and his friends, or is he upset at what happened to his mother? D. My favorite lines are “ ‘Oh Tiresias,’ I replied as the prophet finished, ‘surely the gods have spun this out as fate, the gods themselves. But tell me on thing more, and tell me clearly. I see the ghost of my long-lost mother here before me. Dead, crouching close to the blood in silence, she cannot bear to look me in the eyes—her own son—or speak a work to me. How, lord, can I make her know me for the man I am?” I felt a connection with the real world and I really liked that. We as people or human being try to gain that acceptance and approval everyday by whose above us and ofcourse our parents. But if you have a bad reputation like Odysseus does, and now that his mother has a ghost it is even harder to gain her acceptance because she is no longer alive. I. I see what point petergiglio tries to make. How did they just leave Elpenor dead there like that when a burial would have been much better.
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Post by Ray Park on Oct 15, 2013 5:31:17 GMT -5
B. This part of the book is quite important to what lies ahead. This is when Odysseus's adventure really starts to begin and become the drama of the story. You can foreshadow what will become of him and what will happen to him in the future. This also goes to show the amount arrogance he has. He believes that he is the unstoppable raider of countries for doing minor achievements that only lead to his suffering. C. This part of the book was quite interesting. Odyesseus actually goes to the land of the dead and sees his fate. He has heard that his wife and kid were bein bullied and tortured by selfish suitors and yet he doesnt feel the urgency nor the need to go back home as fast as possible. I feel like Odysseus is selfish in some respect. He didnt give his own crewmate a nice proper burial because he didnt feel like it and he doesnt take care of the people around him, only himself. Is Odysseus really the hero of the book? Is he really considered the legend? I. I agree with Eric Ildefonso about what will happen in the book and about Odysseus.
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Post by nvanible on Oct 15, 2013 5:41:58 GMT -5
E. When Tiresias says to Odysseus, “No doubt you will pay them back in blood when you come home! But once you have killed those suitors in your halls--by stealth or in open fight with slashing bronze—go forth once more, you must..,” I laughed, thinking that Tiresias was all right with Odysseus slaughtering people. In addition, although the suitors are depicted as jerks, who are trying to steal Odysseus’ fortune, it’s amazing that the God of the House of Death is so willing to let Odysseus just kill them, believing that he was going to do that to them anyway.
D. Odysseus’ mother tells him, “No, it was my longing for you, my shining Odysseus—you and your quickness, you and your gentle ways—that tore away my life that had been sweet,” I thought that this quote was very touching. This perfectly sheds some light on Odysseus’ parents, giving us as the readers and audience a general understanding of how they lived. In addition, this quote’s impact was huge as Odysseus’ mother’s death was not caused by some mental or physical illness, but the mental and emotional state of hers declining due to the desire of wanting to see her son, after so long.
I. When jotirmoykundu asked about how Odysseus' mother's death, it was simply the fact that all the tension, mental and emotional stress built up from the years of worrying about her son who has not returned had finally taken its toll on her, killing her. Although it was subtle and uncommon, this is how she died.
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